From Birth to Final Bid with Chris Jolly

Whether you’re a seedstock producer, run a cow-calf operation or are purchasing cattle to put on feed, chances are you have a relationship with your local sale barn. Sitting in the stands watching animals run through the ring, the logistics of sorting like cattle, pregnancy checking, performing breeding soundness exams and readying cattle to go on grass (or into a feedlot) can be mind-numbing. 

On this episode of Angus at Work, we welcome you to listen in as we visit with veterinarian Chris Jolly regarding: 

• What happens when you drop cattle off at the sale barn
• How you can better prepare your animals to withstand stress from birth forward
• Steps you can take to minimize risk when introducing new livestock to your operation
• And much more!

Additional Resources:

• Here’s How to Make the Most of Vaccinations
• Become a Better Client for Your Veterinarian in Five Steps
• Panelists Talk Capturing Value During Angus Convention
• What Vaccines Should I Use? Tips for Establishing Vaccination Protocols
• Subscribe to the Angus Beef Bulletin EXTRA

A huge thank you to Purina for their sponsorship of this episode.

Find more information to make Angus work for you in the Angus Beef Bulletin and ABB EXTRA. Make sure you're subscribed! Sign up here to the print Angus Beef Bulletin and the digital Angus Beef Bulletin EXTRA. Have questions or comments? We'd love to hear from you! Contact our team at abbeditorial@angus.org.

Transcript

Intro (00:04):
Angus at Work, a podcast for the profit-minded cattleman. Brought to you by the Angus Beef Bulletin, we have news and information on health, nutrition, marketing, genetics and management. So let’s get to work, shall we?

Host (00:28):
Whether you're a seedstock producer, run a cow-calf operation or are purchasing cattle to put on feed, chances are you have a relationship with your local sale barn. Sitting in the stands watching animals run through the ring, the logistics of sorting like cattle, pregnancy checking, performing breeding soundness exams and readying cattle to go on grass (or into a feedlot) can be mind-numbing.

Today we're hoping to shed a little light on what goes on behind the scenes. On this episode of Angus at Work, we welcome you to listen in as we visit with veterinarian Chris Jolly about what happens when you drop cattle off at the sale barn, how you can better prepare your animals to withstand stress from birth forward, steps you can take to minimize risk when introducing new animals to your operation and much more. So, let's dive in!

Purina ad (01:20):
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Host (01:51):
Welcome to Angus at Work! I'm your host, Lynsey McAnally, and today we're discussing something that I've been curious about for some time: What exactly are the responsibilities of a sale barn veterinarian? So with that, Chris, I can't think of a better person to kick off this episode. Do you mind telling us a little bit about yourself?

Chris Jolly (02:09):
Absolutely. Thank you for having me on the podcast today. So I am a bovine-only veterinarian in Versailles, Ky., is where I'm based out of. I graduated from Auburn University College of Veterinary Medicine in 2015. A little bit of background: I did not grow up on a farming operation all of my childhood. My dad, my parents, bought about 50 or 60 acres when I was in middle school. Then we started dipping our toe into the cattle business a little bit. We started with some purebred Angus cattle from a client of his that had some cattle. And then after that we started backgrounding some feeder cattle.

So I got to see a little bit of all of it. That's actually what spurred me to go into veterinary medicine. My dad is a small animal veterinarian. I actually had no interest in doing that. After getting exposed to large animal, I really fell in love with that and started becoming very interested in that and decided that's the career path that I wanted to take. 

After graduating in 2015 from [veterinary] school, I did come back to my hometown here in Versailles and was fortunate enough to join into a practice that was again, bovine-only. We did the sale barn there in Lexington, Ky., Blue Grass Stockyards. I was there for about 10 years. This summer, I started my own practice still taking care of some Blue Grass barns in a different location. Doing the Richmond and Stanford barns.

Host (03:39):
I'm just curious, how many days a week are you in the barn now?

Chris Jolly (03:43):
So I do sale barns Monday. It's usually a short day. We'll do Monday until about 1:00 or 2:00 p.m. I go to a sale barn on Thursday. That's the big day. Then we'll be there maybe 8:00 or 10:00 a.m. until whenever it gets finished up. And then Friday is Richmond sale. So three days a week.

Host (04:01):
And are those predominantly feeder-calf sales? Are those going to be replacement sales? Or is it kind of a mix?

Chris Jolly (04:08):
It'll be a mix of all. Everything. Yeah. They're two different locations and a lot of those [barns] have one big sale a week. It's open to everything. You'll have some feeders. You'll have mainly feeders, but there will be some replacements, a lot of cull cows.

Host (04:23):
No, that makes a lot of sense. I think that our audience - regardless of whether we've got cow-calf guys listening or if we've got more feeder-calf folks listening - I think anybody would be interested in what goes on. There's so many times when we come in, we drop cattle off. We have a good relationship with the folks that we work with at the barn and maybe we stay and watch the sale, but what goes on behind the scenes might not be as familiar to all of us. 

So, you mentioned Blue Grass - they're actually who put us in touch - but we're all aware that there are veterinarians onsite at sale barns and that there are different services and guarantees that might be available under the supervision of those veterinarians. Something I've always been curious about is what exactly the day to day looks like for someone in your position.

Chris Jolly (05:11):
As far as responsibilities go at the sale barn, it's kind of two-fold. One is going to be more of a regulatory position and the other is what I would call more of a private practice position. Regulatory-wise, most people know cows over the age of 18 months are required to have an electronic identification tag in their ear to go from different states. In our stockyards, they have to be tagged if they're run through a chute and [pregnancy] checked. So that's one of the responsibilities that we have as far as regulation goes there at the yards. 

Also, having eyes on the cattle that are there. That allows us to write health certificates so that the order buyers there can put those cattle together or ship them from different states. And one other thing regulatory would be with the Holsteins. Holsteins going across state lines have to be also electronically identified with the official identification.

Something that's entrusted to us as a veterinarian is to tag all those and make sure that information is managed and sent to the necessary state officials in other states. So we make it so that the order buyers in that barn have the ability to ship cattle. And then the other one I mentioned was kind of our private practice thing. What we're doing there is we're working for the backgrounders and stocker guys when they come in and they're wanting to buy some feeder cattle to turn out. 

Most of them are probably coming straight off of a cow. Maybe they do have a little time they've been weaned or whatever. But basically putting those into uniform load lots for people. So when the farmer buys those, we'll run them through and vaccinate them, castrate them, implant them, tag them, all the same things like that. And then the other thing kind of privately that we do, we may do some [pregnancy] checking for folks there as well.

Host (07:06):
And so do you have an idea of what you're headed into when you go to the barn in the morning? Do you have a checklist or is it kind of just you get there and you figure it out once you're there?

Chris Jolly (07:17):
So there are lots of surprises that come along with the sale barn, but generally in a set day when we get there, first things first, we get started with the head cows. If there are any bulls to do, getting those animals prepped for the sale. We're going to [pregnancy] check those and we'll put a trimester sticker on them. However far pregnant they are. One of the barns that we do, they want to age all the cows. So we age them and put a tag in their ear with how old they are. 

We get the back tags on them that they need and just do that kind of thing to get them ready to go through the sale ring. If it's a bull, if they want them semen checked before they go to the sale ring. We'll do that as well after that. Most of the time if they've started selling some feeder cattle, at that point you're going to start getting some phone calls where they've bought a load lot of heifers or a package of heifers that they're putting together and the load lots. 

And we'll start checking those heifers before they are going to get on a truck and go out west or get turned out or whatever they're going to do with them. Usually the latter part of the day is spent doing what I was talking about a minute ago with the feeder cattle. Vaccinating, castrating, deworming, that kind of thing.

Host (08:21):
Just out of curiosity, do you help with any specialty sales that might happen at Blue Grass? If there's going to be replacement sales that come through or breeding animals in general that come through, is that something that you've had a hand in in the past?

Chris Jolly (08:34):
Yeah, absolutely. And so a lot of times with the specials ... This time of year we're getting into a lot of special bred heifer sales. A lot of times we'll actually do those on the farm and try to get those prepped beforehand. We'll do the EID tags, [pregnancy] check, pelvic measure on the farm. That way when the cattle come into the sale barn, we don't have to run them in the chute right before the sale. It's a little less stressful on those cattle. 

All they have to do is bring them in, sort them, let them hang out and kind of calm down. Give them as much time to calm down before they go into the sale ring. But there are some we do have once a month. Most of the barns we'll have a special cow sale where it's replacement cattle only and those will usually spend the day checking cattle or that afternoon. However many head they got. Running them through the chute, doing the same thing as what we would do to start our day every day. But it's just a bigger sale. You might have 100 head of cows or 200 head or up to 600, whatever is there that day.

Host (09:32):
Awesome. I know that the size of sales can differ depending on what's going on, but thank you for giving those numbers. I do think sometimes it's a little bit hard when you're sitting in the stands to see the scope of what's going on. You see cattle running through. I know people that are really good at counting, but mathematics is not my strong suit. So it's always nice to get a little bit of perspective there! 

Obviously we're moving cattle, we're changing their environment, and that can cause a lot of stress as much as we hope that it doesn't. Do you have any recommendations for producers to ensure those cattle have the best possible outcome once they arrive at the barn? And I think that could mean a multitude of things, right? That could be nutrition vaccination, just any tips that you might have. Can we run through some of those?

Chris Jolly (10:21):
I've got one producer, he calls it the five P's: proper planning prevents poor performance. And so anything you can do beforehand to get these cattle ready for sale day. First and foremost, one of the biggest things I think is going to be weaning. Whether it's a 30-day, 45 or 60-day. If you want to go longer than that, obviously the longer the better. That's one thing you can do to reduce a lot of stress on those cattle on the day that you're going to bring them to the sale barn. 

Going hand in hand with that: vaccinations. The stockyard is, and I think everybody would agree, a cesspool. It's like a kindergarten classroom. When you drop your kids off, they come back sick for some reason. So why would we not expect the same thing with cattle? We send them there and they're commingled and they're nose to nose and side by side with who knows how many cattle that they may come into contact with that day.

So if you can get some vaccine in them at least 21 days before - if not 42 days - they might even have time to booster it. Let it ramp up and do some good and build some immunity for them. But two rounds of vaccine, preferably modified-live vaccines, give that calf the best chance it's got to go on and live a very productive life as far. 

As nutrition goes, get them eating grain. You don't want to put too much flesh on them. Order buyers watch for that. But if you've got them eating grain, the guy that gets them the next round. He's definitely going to appreciate if they know what a bunk looks like. Again, don't decide to do that the day before and gorge them on some corn. But if they're getting a percent of body weight per day before you take them, I think that's definitely helpful. It's going to help you, too, because you're selling pounds. You put pounds on them. A pound nowadays is worth anywhere from $3.5 to $4 per pound. 

As far as the way that you handle the cattle, if you've got your cattle coming to you when you've got a bucket of feed in your hand versus having to get the side-by-side out and go chase them through the field? You're going to get them hot and sweaty and they're not going to look very good when they come to the sale barn.

Host (12:31):
What would your dream scenario be if you were advising somebody to prep cattle to sell?

Chris Jolly (12:40):
So I always advise my clients, again, the two rounds of vaccine. That seems to be a gold standard. When you talk to these order buyers, that's something that they repeatedly tell us that they want. And it doesn't matter what brand of vaccine, but two rounds of a modified-live vaccine. I think there's enough research. There's been enough cattle that people have owned in the past however many years that the ones that have modified-live vaccine ... The two rounds of modified-live vaccine is a huge part. 

Obviously, you want to get a round of black leg in there, if not two. If you can booster that, castrate the calf while it's still either on the cow or after it comes off and getting the animal wormed. Give that wormer some time to work. Don't do it the week before, again, before you take them to the sale. Do all these things well in advance. Give yourself 30 to 45 days to reap some of that benefit. Let the calf heal up. Let the calf gain some weight back. Let the calf gain some immunity and when they start gaining weight and putting that weight back on, that's putting pounds on them and putting money back in your pocket.

Host (13:55):
So the flip side of that would be what is one thing that you would absolutely not recommend producers before dropping livestock off at the sale barn?

Chris Jolly (14:06):
Again, and you see this sometimes. People just gorge these things on feed before. They're thinking, well, I can throw 20 lb. of feed a day at one right before we send it up there or pour a bunch of salt to it, trying to get a bunch of cheap weight gain on them. That's a terrible idea. It usually backfires. The order buyers can usually spot that pretty quick. We had a situation a couple months ago with a whole pot load of heifers that I think they'd been over fed the last short period right before. It ended up the cattle being rejected. It was a bad situation.

Host (14:45):
So what are the effects of doing that on those cattle?

Chris Jolly (14:49):
Yeah, I mean it really trashes their guts. It really makes that rumen acidic and there's tons of sequelae after that. It can affect their feet, affect their health [ and cause] liver abscesses down the road. It can turn into a bad deal.

Host (15:03):
Oh gosh. So all of that to me - and I know to our listeners - is incredibly interesting information. Thank you for your perspective! But do you mind if we reverse for just a second? And what would you recommend producers have in place on their operations before introducing new animals to the herd?

Chris Jolly (15:21):
So one thing that comes to mind, and we do a lot of this with our background. One particular disease is bovine viral diarrhea (BVD). We do a lot of BVD persistently infected (PI) animal testing, and that's not something that you can spot or an order buyer can spot when they're looking at these animals going through the sail ring. But it is something that after they're bought and put together in groups and we're working them, we will do a lot of ear notching. We take some samples and run them and look for this virus. So it can be a very devastating virus. It can wipe out groups of calves. I've seen death loss as high as 50% in groups that have had really, really severe cases of it. But that's always a big concern with the feeder cattle. 

So other things to think about when you have cows coming in, if you have the ability to quarantine new additions to your herd, if you can quarantine them for about 30 days just to make sure they're not carrying anything into your herd, especially if you have a closed herd and other things to make sure just that if you have fresh, clean water for incoming cattle and then have good source of hay or some kind of nutrition coming in, all of those things, anything you can do to make their life less stressful when they come in, like I said, we've been talking about them going into this stressful situation.

They may have been just jerked off mom. They've gone to a sale barn, a place they've never been before. They've been sorted maybe once, twice, three times. Loaded on a trailer twice to get to your place. If you've got a nice comforting pen ready for them. Hopefully that is dry. Maybe in a barn under roof that maybe has some feed set out for them before you get there so you don't walk through them after you turn them in this pen and dump feed to them. But that feed could already be in the bunk there for them.

Host (17:10):
There is a lot of relationship building between the folks at the sale barn and the people that are consistently bringing cattle to market through that barn. And it seems like it's a mutual relationship in that everyone has to be honest with one another in order for that relationship to grow. In saying that, if you're going to a barn that has a good reputation and you're buying from breeders or producers who have a good reputation, it's in their best interest to provide cattle that have had all these things. Right?

Chris Jolly (17:46):
I mean, again, reputation cattle are going to be your best bet. I mean, you're always going to have those guys that are kind of bargain hunters that are willing to take the risk a little bit. But looking for those reputation cattle, if you know the guy that they came from or if you know who's selling them? Like you said, that relationship with your order buyer. I tell people a lot of the time, that's some of the best money you spend. 

Whatever they're charging you to buy, you're paying them because they know where the cattle are coming from or they're there every day. They know the people that are bringing them in. They know what those people are doing to their cattle. They know what kind of shots they've had. They know what they've had up front. They know if they've weaned the cattle, if they're unweaned. Getting an order buyer to buy cattle for you, sometimes that's the best money that you can spend.

Host (18:30):
One of my questions is say that you purchase a breeding animal from a sale barn and maybe you don't know who sold that animal or the background of that animal. What would you recommend to producers if they don't know the background as far as getting those breeding females onto a vaccination schedule or developing a protocol for those animals?

Chris Jolly (18:54):
Sure. So yeah, if you've got a breeding animal and know the pregnancy status of this animal, but maybe that's about all you know. You definitely don't want to go at them with a modified-live. You need to start out with a killed vaccine just for the safety of that fetus. And then when that animal does calve and she's open, that would be the time to start her on a modified-live program if that's the direction that you would like to go.

Host (19:17):
Again, we'll talk about it here in just a second, but that's something that you would develop with your veterinarian if you have a good relationship with them.

Chris Jolly (19:24):
Absolutely, yes, absolutely.

Host (19:26):
Awesome. But I can't think of a better way to segue into this next section one that I'm really excited to talk about. Being able to provide healthy well performing animals to buyers is something that our audience is familiar with and that they certainly deserve credit for myself and probably for many other producers. Building that legacy of herd health isn't something that we can accomplish on our own. So what would you say to producers on the fence about sitting down and having a conversation with their veterinarian to develop that total herd health plan?

Chris Jolly (19:59):
Do it. I love it. No, your veterinarian, your local veterinarian is going to be a great resource. I'm huge on the local veterinarian. Talk to them. They went to school to learn these things. They have a degree in it. They are your local expert on it. And most of them, if you take the time to reach out to them, I think they're going to be more than happy to try to cultivate that relationship back with you. To give you some pointers to help you. 

And we talked about this a little bit earlier, don't look at it as an expense, but a veterinarian can help you make your herd more profitable. There are ways that they've been trained into doing that. They have experience, have some relationship with some of these people. I give an example, I have producers come to me all the time and they just come to you and they might say, 'Hey, I need a bottle of this.'

The two seconds it takes me to ask, well, what do you need that for? What are you treating with that? Why do you need that? And they'll tell me what they're treating. And I say, 'Well, why don't you try this? This is actually a better drug for what you're trying to treat. Try this.' Or maybe you've already used a drug, an antibiotic in that class and you're wanting the same antibiotic again. And I say, 'Well, maybe you should switch this and try a different antibiotic and see if this works a little better for you.' There's a lot of benefit to not just go and using your veterinarian just to get product. Actually sitting down, going through your entire herd, coming up with that herd health plan for sure.

Host (21:34):
Sure. And so I've had the chance to sit down with several veterinarians over the past two years that I've been with the Bulletin. And one of the things that consistently comes up is ... I would say it's not even a request, it's a plea. To not wait until it's 3:00 a.m. on a winter night to call your vet, right? To sit down and have these conversations. And I think that we can all recognize that beef cattle producers are knowledgeable individuals. Adding another person into the mix that has an expertise that we do not have, I feel like is critically important. 

And so one of the things that we talk about [is] a veterinary-client-patient relationship (VCPR) is consistently brought up in our publication on the podcast and by pretty much every person I feel like that we talk to. Whether that's nutrition, health or a veterinarian themselves. So how would you recommend - if you don't have an existing relationship with your local veterinarian - how would you recommend that people go about developing that relationship? How do they reach out to their veterinarian and how do they build a strong relationship moving forward?

Chris Jolly (22:47):
Absolutely. Yeah. So if there is an opportunity in your operation somewhere that say you're not preg checking your cattle, you need to find a veterinarian, that's a great place to start. There's several places. I mean, like I said, [pregnancy] checking cows, the breeding soundness exam (BSE) for your bulls yearly. Start there with just everyday things. 

If you're a backgrounder and you background and feed your cattle, again, reaching out to them and just saying, 'Hey, can we sit down and talk about a plan? I'm going to start buying some cattle this week. What do you think is the best idea?' But yeah, absolutely. Please don't wait until 3:00 a.m. I've been on plenty of 3:00 a.m. calls, but a lot of times if I've talked to you Monday through Friday between 8:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m., I'm a lot more happy to come out at 3:00 a.m. than if that's the first time I've ever heard from you.

Host (23:36):
Again, if you could put all of your wishlist in one basket, what would your ideal scenario be for developing a herd health plan with your veterinarian for selling quality cattle from the jump?

Chris Jolly (23:50):
Ideally, again, starting with a weaning program, if you're going to wean those calves off the cow, not jerking them right off the calf or off the cow and taking them straight to the sale barn. To me, 45 to 60 days I think is really good amount of time. They're used to being on their own at that point. Two rounds of the modified-live vaccine and deworming. 

I didn't touch on this earlier, but with deworming a big sticking point for me is something we've really focused on our practice in the last year or two. What's called a double worming. You're going to use two different classes of worm. We're going to use a white wormer and a ivermectin. I prefer the injectables. But using both of those classes of wormer together substantially increases the amount of kill of worms that you're getting when you deworm the cattle using just a white wormer or just a ivermectin wormer alone. The egg or the worm kill is much, much lower than when you use those two together.

So that's something that's really, really big that we've been focusing on here lately. And just a little tidbit of extra information. You're switching brands on wormers. If you go from one brand to the other, it isn't necessarily switching a different type of wormer that's just switching the brand of wormer. It's the same one. And then castrate. Those animals definitely, definitely need to do that. Again, that's just something else that's going to take a little stress on them. 

If you go ahead and get that knocked out early and then an implant, I think an implant, and whether it's a steer or heifer. This is something that you should have a conversation with your veterinarian about how that works into your program. If you're doing replacement heifers, you may not want to do that, but on your steers doing a grass implant. For something that costs you $2 and may put 10 extra pounds on that animal, there's not much else that gives you return on investment like that.

Host (25:54):
Is there anything we've forgotten? We've had quite the conversation and I love all of the different things that we've talked about, but I always love to bring it back and just say, what have we forgotten that you would love to mention?

Chris Jolly (26:06):
The only other thing if you can find, maybe if you are like yourself and you have a small herd and you can find a group of like-minded folks and you guys want to get a calf pool together. I actually have the privilege of being a veterinarian for a group here. There's a gentleman that sells bulls to producers. They turn that back around and they will have a calf pool sale of cattle that are out of those genetics. They'll have a calf pool sale, and they usually put a sale together twice a year. They'll have about 2,000 calves in the fall to sell. And they have about, I don't know, maybe 500-800 they sell in June. 

But all those are commingled calves that are all vaccinated, dewormed tagged, handled and weaned the same way. And the advantage there is when you put those together into larger groups - into load lots - that increases the premium and the return for the producer.

Host (27:10):
I love that. We're coming to the end, and I don't want to keep you very long. I know you're a busy guy! I appreciate the time that you've taken to talk to us, but we always like to end Angus at Work on a positive note. There are so many things out there in the world that can bring us down, but we're coming up on Thanksgiving, so this one might be a little more timely than usual. What is one thing happening in your life personally or professionally that you are thankful for?

Chris Jolly (27:39):
Like mentioned in my intro, I had the opportunity to start my own business back in June. It has just flourished. I've been very blessed and I'm very thankful for the clientele that I have [as well as] the great people at the different sale barns and places that I have to go to work with. That's been a big blessing for me this year.

Host (27:57):
Awesome. I love to hear it. Well, thank you so much for joining us.

Chris Jolly (28:01):
Absolutely.

Outro (28:08):
Listeners, for more information on making Angus work for you, check out the Angus Beef Bulletin and the Angus Beef Bulletin EXTRA. You can subscribe to both publications in the show notes. If you have questions or comments, let us know at abbeditorial@angus.org and we would appreciate it if you would leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and share this episode with any other profit-minded cattlemen. Thanks for listening. This has been Angus at Work!