Filling a Beef Packing Void with Whiskey Creek Processing

On this episode, host Lynsey McAnally brings our audience a bit of a different perspective on the beef industry. Beef processors – large and small – are a critical piece of the beef supply chain puzzle. 

When COVID-19 was felt full force back in 2020, the need for an expanded network of processors across the state of Oklahoma became apparent. The result: $10 million of potential grant funding was made available to those wishing to build a better beef processing industry in that state.

At the same time, there were also brand new local processors launching. Chance Combs and family of Madill, Okla., saw an opportunity and brought beef processing a little closer to home for their friends and neighbors via Whiskey Creek Processing. 

During the conversation, we discussed: 

• Founding and constructing Whiskey Creek Processing,
• How your cattle are processed from drop off to picking up packaged beef,
• Opportunities for small producers,
• Challenges for small processors,
• And more!

A huge thank you to Purina for their sponsorship of this episode.

Additional Resources:

• Whiskey Creek Processing
• A Sale Barn Perspective with the Beaver Stockyards Team
• Insight from the Packer with Chad Barker
• Reimaging Red Meat Yield with Dale Woerner
• Subscribe to the Angus Beef Bulletin EXTRA

Find more information to make Angus work for you in the Angus Beef Bulletin and ABB EXTRA. Make sure you're subscribed! Sign up here to the print Angus Beef Bulletin and the digital Angus Beef Bulletin EXTRA. Have questions or comments? We'd love to hear from you! Contact our team at abbeditorial@angus.org.

Transcript

Lynsey McAnally (00:19):
Angus at Work, a podcast for the profit-minded cattleman. Brought to you by the Angus Beef Bulletin, we have news and information on health, nutrition, marketing, genetics and management. So let’s get to work, shall we?

Purina Ad (00:29):
Raising cattle demands grit, determination and the right nutrition. That’s why cattle producers have turned to Purina Animal Nutrition for over 130 years. From starters that help set calves up for success to protein that fuels cattle growth, to minerals that keep herds performing. Purina has the products and expertise that work as hard as you do, get rewarded for your work with proven nutrition from Purina. Learn more at purinamills.com/cattlecare. That’s purinamills.com/cattlecare.

Lynsey McAnally (01:07):
Welcome to Angus at Work. I’m your host Lynsey McAnally, and today I’m excited to bring our audience a bit of a different perspective on the beef industry. Beef processors - large and small - are a critical piece of the beef industry. And when COVID was felt full force back in 2020, the need for an expanded network of processors across the state of Oklahoma became apparent. As part of the Oklahoma Cattlemen’s Association Cattlemen’s Leadership Academy, I got to know a pretty cool couple who saw an opportunity and brought beef processing a little closer to home for their friends and neighbors. So, Chance, if you don’t mind, can you tell us a little bit about your background and how you first got involved in the cattle industry?

Chance Combs (01:46):
Yeah, so I actually have only been in the cattle industry for about five years. My dad had a small herd for the past 20-something years. I just never had the opportunity dealing with kids growing up, a new wife and I was in the Marine Corps for a little bit. So when I got back into Oklahoma, like I said about five years ago, we decided to partner up with my dad and also my brother-in-law. We did that so that we could buy a larger piece of land. So we bought a larger piece of land, not large to most people’s means but to ours it meant quite a bit. So we bought that, started running some mamas there. We had about 100 mamas that we ran. Mostly Angus. We decided that we needed to find another avenue to make money off of cattle. This was before cattle prices had gone through the roof the last couple of years.

We started looking around. It took me about two years. I traveled around to different states, different process facilities, slaughter facilities, trying to figure out how do we do this correctly. So we spent a couple years doing that and then took us about eight months to do the build-out. We actually built the plant ourselves. That's another thing that we do on the side is we have real estate business. So we built the plant ourselves, which helped us out. We actually had to sell off about half of our mamas at that time to help fund this. Once we got it up and running, we were planning on buying back and that's when everything went through the roof. So we're still waiting to buy back. We've just been keeping lots of replacements each year. And here we are today.

Lynsey McAnally (03:21):
I think that's really interesting you mentioned that because I think that's the same boat a lot of people are in right now with the price of replacements. There's a huge question on the table of do you go ahead and market those heifers now or do you not make that profit right now and hold onto them for later?

Chance Combs (03:37):
Absolutely.

Lynsey McAnally (03:38):
When we talk about Whiskey Creek, are you primarily working with cattle or are there other species that you're working with in that facility?

Chance Combs (03:44):
We are actually federally inspected on all species. So we are federally inspected for beef, swine, goat and sheep. We do all of these plus we're state inspected for bison which correlates to all federal requirements for bison. We have state inspectors in our plant that do the job of the feds. They contract to the feds through the state of Oklahoma.

Lynsey McAnally (04:07):
What is your capacity day to day for those animals? How many of each species are you typically processing?

Chance Combs (04:15):
Percentage wise, we are right at about 78% beef as far as through a monthly slaughtering process. We'll do 78% beef, about 16% swine and then the others will be goat and sheep.

Lynsey McAnally (04:32):
I think when we were, and I'll mention this a little bit later in the episode for our audience, but I think when we actually came and toured Whiskey Creek, you mentioned there's a pretty large demand for sheep and goat being that you guys aren't that far out of Oklahoma City.

Chance Combs (04:49):
There is, and we haven't really reached into that market at this point just because our beef market is growing so well. Our beef market is really where we're wanting to focus. That's what we're here for.

Lynsey McAnally (05:01):
Well, we love to hear that. Right? As a beef podcast, that's always good news to hear. And how many days a week do you guys have a federal inspector in the plant?

Chance Combs (05:11):
So it varies, but on a general week we have an inspector there five days a week. If we know that on a Friday we're only going to be doing custom stuff, we'll tell the inspectors that we're just doing custom and they may not show up because they don't need to be there for custom.

Lynsey McAnally (05:27):
Sure. And when you say custom, is that something that family is going to keep within the family?

Chance Combs (05:32):
Correct, yeah. It's not inspected. It'll have 'Not for Sale' on the packaging and it's basically if you want to bring something to us and take back to feed your family, that's going to be custom.

Lynsey McAnally (05:42):
Clarify for me real quick: You are federally inspected, so if you have people that want to sell across state lines and they have cattle or any species processed at Whiskey Creek, they have the ability to do that?

Chance Combs (05:54):
Absolutely. That was the whole point of becoming federal. We're 12 miles from the Texas state line and, as a matter of fact, probably 65% of our producers come out of Texas.

Lynsey McAnally (06:06):
And then how many customers are selling either quarters, halves or wholes versus some of these single cuts or boxed beef?

Chance Combs (06:16):
Depending on the time of the year, retail cuts are probably going to make up about 60-65% as far as what we're doing that is inspected. And then the other portion of that is going to be halves and quarters.

Lynsey McAnally (06:29):
And are most of your customers, do they have a market of their own or are they marketing beef through Whiskey Creek?

Chance Combs (06:36):
No, the majority of them market their own beef or have storefronts or other customers that they're selling their beef to within the retail forum. So most of them have their own marketing strategies and they do a really good job. It's really neat to see how different each one does it and yet it still works very well for all of them.

Lynsey McAnally (06:53):
Awesome. And I will bring that up a little bit here in just a few minutes because I have a question about your own storefront. You mentioned a little bit earlier about how you got the ball rolling with building your facility, but can you tell us a little bit more about what that process looked like and how you came up with the actual design that you went with for Whiskey Creek?

Chance Combs (07:16):
Yeah, so first and foremost, it was a pain in the rear. I'm not going to lie, but like I'd mentioned earlier, we traveled to several different plants. One thing about this industry is most all the [plant owner/managers] I've never met before. I was just cold calling plants, 'Hey, can I come see what you're doing? Can I spend an hour with you and you tell me what you would do different in your plant?' And so I took time to do that. Went to plants all over, went up to even Missouri, out Kansas City way, and visited some really good people. Matter of fact, some of them are very good friends of ours now. One of them is in Nebraska. We just went to a wedding up there and we met them trying to build our plant. So it's a very tight-knit community. Everybody's pretty much willing to help in any way they can, and that's kind of how we got our design. We went through a lot of different plants that were very different. I mean, none of the two plants we went to were even remotely the same. We just stole ideas from people that were already doing it.

Lynsey McAnally (08:17):
And what was the process as far as getting the federal government involved with either permitting and/or approvals to build a facility. What did you have to keep in mind as far as building the facility when it went to, 'Okay, we know down the line we're going to have to have this inspected and approved to run our business.'

Chance Combs (08:37):
So I mean, of course there's lots of different regulations and some of that even goes into the build. I mean, one of the big things is your pens. How they're set up. That way you can have humane handling and humane knocking. Also your rail heights. Certain things like that and how easy it is to keep that facility clean. Those are all really important things and I'll tell you the thing that was best for us was the state of Oklahoma. And I know this sounds contrary to what happens most of the time, but the guys at the [Oklahoma Department of Agriculture] were phenomenal. I talked to the state [veterinarian] a lot and even people that worked around him and they were phenomenal. Every time I had a question, they answered the question and sent me the documents that showed why the answer was the answer. And that helped out tremendously because guess what? When we were done building, we passed our inspections with flying colors. We didn't have to go back and fix anything. So they helped out a lot. And then when they turned me over to the feds out of the Dallas region? Same thing. Any time we had a question, [these agencies] bent over backwards to help us out.

Lynsey McAnally (09:42):
That's always wonderful to hear. I wanted to mention, your family was kind enough to host the Cattlemen's Leadership Academy through Oklahoma Cattlemen's Association (OCA). You were so kind to walk us through the process from intake to when you deliver that product back to your customers. Can you walk us through what that looks like from the time that you actually have cattle delivered to Whiskey Creek to when you are able to then load customers out and get that product going where it needs to go?

Chance Combs (10:16):
Yeah, sure. One thing that we really try to stress on in our plant from the time a vehicle pulls onto our property ... Inspected beef, as soon as that vehicle gets on the property, that animal is now controlled by the feds. And so we have to ensure that customers don't handle their own beef even when they pull up to unload. They're not supposed to handle them. And some people are a little reluctant about that, but we explain to them and we have paperwork because we try to be transparent on everything. It's just a liability. And one of the biggest things that the feds really watch you on is humane handling. Everybody wants to make sure that the way the animals are handled is professional, safe and humane. At the end of the day, that's got to be one of the top priorities when receiving and knocking animals.

We take that very, very seriously. And so we get that done. We get them offloaded and make sure that we have people's information. One thing that processing plants get a bad [reputation] for is people not getting their beef back or people thinking that the processing plant might've skimmed a little off the top. That really isn't the case for most. I will say I don't know all of them and sure, some people are dishonest. But most of the ones I know, that would never happen. Not intentionally anyway. And so one of the things in our process is we have so many things that are redundant to make sure that you're getting your beef back and making sure it's not getting mixed up with somebody else and making sure that we're not taking any of it. We've got a state-of-the-art kill floor.

We can kill about 18 beef through in about six hours, which is pretty good for a small plant. Once they're killed, inspected, everything is good to go from the inspector, we'll roll them into a hot box. One of the things I'm most proud of about our plant is the refrigeration system that we went out and got. We hired this company out of Kansas City. They do lots of big projects. We made a real good friend in the owner and he agreed to come down and do our plant. We spent a lot of time and money on that, but I'm going to tell you that that was one of the best things we did in our plant. It's a fully monitored system that our coolers can't change more than three degrees without alarms going off. No matter what time of the day it is, at least three people at all times will be notified. So that's something that we like to tell our producers because it gives them a little peace of mind. You've got some producers who will bring $50,000 worth of beef to us that they've got hanging. They want to make sure that power outage isn't going to ruin their day.

Lynsey McAnally (12:42):
Peace of mind.

Chance Combs (12:42):
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And then once they hang, we generally are going to hang for 14 days. Now that can change from producer to producer, but generally 14 days is where we're at and there's lots of science to back that up, especially if your coolers are regulated correctly. So at that point, we will bring them on the floor. We bring them on the floor one beef at a time. That's another one of those things that we do to make sure that there's no beef getting mixed up. So one beef at a time comes on the floor, at least one customer at a time. If somebody has three beef, we might have all three on the floor, but they're on different workstations so we're not mixing each beef up all the way through the process. We have a computer system that is in every room that they log, everything they're doing. How much trim they took off of a certain beef, how many steaks they took off, what did the steaks weigh, etc.

They count every piece and we weigh every piece after we've packaged. Everything we do is vacuum sealed, whether it goes on our roll stock machine - which is more of a streamlined machine - or if it goes on bigger cuts which have to be done on what we call a chamber machine. All vacuum sealed, a very good product. We produce custom labels for different producers as well. At the end of the day, that stuff goes in a blast freezer that will freeze that beef typically in about 20 minutes. We like to have it overnight in there just to ensure everything is good quality, but in about 20 minutes a beef can be frozen there. We move 11,500 cu. ft. of air per minute at -25 degrees. So it pushes a lot of air. And then at the end of the day, when somebody comes and picks their beef up, they're getting a detailed inventory list that shows every cut, the quantity of cuts and the weight of every cut on that animal. Then we show them the yield that their carcass brought them. That way when they get home, it's easy for them to do their inventory when they put it into the retail store or if they're just putting it in their freezer.

Lynsey McAnally (14:28):
One question I had for you is what options are you offering your customers as far as cut sheets? If somebody comes to you, whether it's a producer that's having one done or a producer that's got several customers that they are trying to keep things separate on, how do you walk through that cut sheet and explain cuts to your producers?

Chance Combs (14:49):
However the producer wants to. We have some people that want to come in and sit down face to face. Any time somebody asks for that, that's exactly what we do. We have some of them that may be three hours away and they want to do it over the phone. That is perfectly fine. We will take as long as it needs. We've sat down with some people for over two hours before to do one cut sheet. Sometimes that's a pain. But here's the deal. We want people to know that we care about their beef and we care about them as customers, and we make it more of a relationship than just a number. Matter of fact, we've made so many friends in this process. I mean, we've gotten invites to people's birthdays and weddings that six months ago we didn't even know. We try to be real personable. We think that God has given us this business and we've got to use it for more than just the number at the end of the day.

Lynsey McAnally (15:39):
I love that. That's such a good quote. When we were going through the plant during the OCA leadership course, you were explaining to us the cuts that you guys typically do and some of the education that you do to stay up to date on the latest things out there in the industry. What kind of education do you or, I guess, continuing education do you utilize to learn those things? And do you feel that the producers coming into your plant are knowledgeable about those cuts as well? Or do you feel like you have the conversation where it's kind of a mutual education to talk about some of those more custom cuts?

Chance Combs (16:26):
Yeah, I would say most of the producers that come in want what we consider more of a custom cut than just a butcher's cut. By the way, we love doing those. We try to talk to people and we don't charge extra for certain cuts. We want people to understand what is really in a beef. Let's get that cut home and try it. You're going to fall in love. I can tell you one of them is a Denver steak. So many people have never even heard of a Denver steak. It's in the chuck portion of the animal, and it is, in my opinion, one of the best steaks on the animal. I would say 80% of the people that we have harvest that for their animal, they come back and want to buy some out of our retail store because they've already run out of their animal on it.

Now, the other side of that, most producers I think see something on social media and then they come ask about it. They're not 100% sure about it, but like you said, we sit down and have a good discussion about it, give them the facts about where that cut is coming from and how to cook that cut because that's a big deal. If you don't know how to cook a certain cut ... not all cuts are cooked the same. And if you cook it wrong, you're not going to like it. So at the end of the day, we're not just telling people what cuts are. We're telling them our opinion on how to cook these cuts and prepare them for their family. So it's very important and we love doing it. How we get to those points is we attend everything we can, and I'm talking, we try to be a part of every association that is feasible for us to get to. Last week, my manager and floor foreman went to Kansas City to AAMP (otherwise know as the American Convention of Meat Processors & Suppliers' Exhibition). They came back, loved it and had some new things they wanted to try. And so that's what we're doing this week, trying some new things.

Lynsey McAnally (18:03):
That's really cool. I come across cuts that I'm not familiar with all the time, and you are exactly right: if you're not certain how to cook things, it can be very intimidating. I'm not going to suggest something to a customer that I don't know how to cook in my own home. So sometimes it can get a little off the rails at our house when you're trying to figure out dinner. But there's also things that I had no clue about a year ago that we cook regularly in our home.

Chance Combs (18:34):
Absolutely. And one thing we will not do, because we do not know it all ... We find new things and new ways to do things all the time, but we don't suggest those things to our customers until we've harvested that [cut], tried it and really felt like we did a good job on it. That's when we start offering it to customers.

Lynsey McAnally (18:53):
In addition to processing for your customers and for yourself, you have a storefront with some pretty cool merch, but also some options for the public. What kind of traffic do you see from the public coming in to buy cuts just for meals weekly? Maybe not coming in to buy large quantities, but coming in to shop for their daily needs?

Chance Combs (19:18):
Yeah, absolutely. No, we've got a great customer base here and a lot of them are locals, especially through the wintertime. It's locals that, instead of going to one of the big chain stores, they want to come support us and they feel like we provide a good product. So we have lots of regulars that come in there. And then this time of the year, the summertime, Highway 70 is a big corridor to come from either Oklahoma City or Dallas to Lake Texoma. So we have a lot of new customers basically every day, especially Thursday, Friday and Saturday, that are coming in to go to the lake. They've heard about us over the last year or two, and so they're stopping in and checking it out. And we're pretty blessed on that part. I really didn't think that retail was something I wanted to do too much of, but I'm pretty glad we did it.

Lynsey McAnally (20:05):
Sure. And we'll talk a little bit more about some of the unique things that you have in your storefront here in a second, but I want to go back and talk about your employees. When we had the opportunity to come in and tour at Whiskey Creek, it was pretty apparent that you have a really great relationship with your staff. So can you tell me a little bit about how many people are currently working in the plant and then maybe some of the things you do as far as education for those employees?

Chance Combs (20:32):
Yeah, absolutely. So we have the kill floor and cut floor. They'll do both those floors depending on what day. We have eight people back there, and then I have a floor foreman and a plant manager. And so we do all training in-house. No matter what somebody says their experience is when they hire on, they have to go through a video training that we've done here at Whiskey Creek and then also hands-on training where they'll have somebody pretty much over their shoulder for the first few days until we are comfortable with them. Of course, then they start at stations that are less likely to mess up: a trim table or something. Then they work their way up as they progress in their ability. Our training program is pretty intense. I believe there's only two people that can actually train.

That'd be my plant manager or my floor foreman. Nobody else is allowed to train anybody because we want consistency throughout everything we do. Our employees are just ... they're top notch. They'll do anything you ask them to do and they never complain. It's pretty wild because I've got employees in other industries and sometimes those employees seem like they don't like life too much. All of them here at the processing plant show up with a smile on their face and have a good time all day long. So it's a really cool environment and I just have to thank plant manager and my floor foreman for keeping it that way.

Lynsey McAnally (22:00):
Sure. And we'll talk a little bit about some of the other industries that you have a hand in here in a second. But as far as Whiskey Creek, has labor been a challenge for you either at the beginning or now, and how do you deal with that, finding those skilled folks to work at your business?

Chance Combs (22:21):
So in the very beginning, and I'm talking the first three or four months, we struggled a little bit with employees. It was just because we needed to find the right people for the job. Now that we've got the right people in the positions, no, we don't have any problems with employees. We're so blessed in that regard, and I really think it has to do with [how] we took the time to get people trained so that everybody is on the same page. We don't have anybody in there that slacks off and makes other people not do their job. We took the time to kind of weed through those kind of people, and so everybody that's there is there to get the job done and they're all on the same page. And that to me, I think is probably the most important part.

Lynsey McAnally (23:03):
I know that a lot of these positions are highly skilled jobs. I wanted to ask your opinion when it comes to fabricating, what's the biggest challenge you think your employees have?

Chance Combs (23:18):
I mean, fabricating is all about knowledge, seams and seeing it. It really is. So it's the same thing as if somebody has never worked on a vehicle engine and they pop the hood on a car. They don't know every single component in there, they don't know what they're looking at. It looks like a big heap of everything. Same thing in meat. If you don't know what you're looking at, you don't know where to start. And so it's just time really. Once you train somebody it's all about how they use their knife. Can they keep their knife sharp? Can they hit the same seams every time? Because not every beef is ... well, you might get the same cut off these beef, but these beef are fed out different. Their breeds are different. Some bones are bigger than other bones depending on breeds. Some muscles are bigger than other muscles depending on breed. Some seams go deeper than others. So it's experience that really makes the difference.

Lynsey McAnally (24:11):
And we talked a little bit about when you first started the plant, the safety and regulatory things that you had to keep it in mind as far as inspections and permitting down the line. And then we talked a little bit about in the plant, when you have cattle coming through and having things inspected. Can you talk a little bit about the requirements that Whiskey Creek has to meet and maybe some of the requirements that are placed on smaller processors that can be a little bit challenging?

Chance Combs (24:38):
Yeah, so probably in my opinion, the biggest challenges would be the testing that we have to do. I'm definitely for testing, especially for e-Coli, salmonella and those things. We want to make sure people aren't getting sick for sure. But some of the ways that they do the testing doesn't make too much sense. And so it seems like a burden when you're having to pay for all these tests. You got to ship these things off, you have to hold the animals, so you got to hold a whole lot. When we do our lots, we do it by the day. As a matter of fact, today we're doing an e-Coli test where we have to send off ground. And so the inspectors need to send it off, especially in the summertime, first thing in the morning because hey, there's only so much time to get that there, even with cold packs and everything before that meat goes bad and they can't test it.

And so having to send that out right out of the gate, we have two options : We either do one beef process, one beef, shut down, clean everything like we would at the end of the day, and then fire back up and do the rest of the beef for the day and then clean again. That way we only have to hold the one lot number. Or if we go all day long and say, we process 8, 9, 10 beef, well, now we've got to hold all 10 of those until we get the test results back. Now they do do a pretty good job at getting them back within a few days, but the problem is if you're trying to hold 10 beef in a freezer because you can't release them until the test results are back now, that's taken up a lot of your space. And so space is a big deal. Especially in freezers. But it is important to make sure that tests are done. And I believe they're working on some different ways to accomplish these, but there's some better ways to do it without putting the burden on the plant as much as it is.

Lynsey McAnally (26:23):
And you have a little bit of a different perspective as well because you also run a restaurant. Can you talk to us a little bit about how operating Hobo Joe's may have changed your perspective when it comes to meat processing?

Chance Combs (26:36):
Well, so I need to clarify one thing: I do not run that restaurant any more. Praise the Lord. My wife actually takes care of that now. We used to run it together. Don't get me wrong! Great industry, you meet great people. It is a blessing to have. But as far as the viewpoints on having a processing plant, it makes you have a lot more respect for where your meat's coming from that you're selling. That's for sure.

Lynsey McAnally (27:04):
I need to apologize to Courtnie, for anyone that doesn't know, your better half Courtnie Combs is who Chance is referring to when he speaks about his wife running that operation. And she runs a tight ship! I feel like I haven't experienced it. Well, I should say I've only experienced it one time, but she seems to be on top of it.

Chance Combs (27:27):
Oh, she does a great job. I don't even like going in there. I'm afraid she's going to put me to work.

Lynsey McAnally (27:33):
It probably would happen, honestly. And so we talked a little bit a few minutes ago - prior to hitting the record button - about you serving your own product at Hobo Joe's. Product that's been processed at Whiskey Creek [served] in the restaurant. So can you talk to us a little bit about that and how that's been a good outlet for you, I'm assuming, and again, how that might have changed your perspective having that? Both the storefront and the restaurant?

Chance Combs (28:04):
Yeah, no, it's been great. The public's response to it is probably the best. And you can ask people that had eaten in our restaurant before we got this processing plant open. You can tell the difference. There's a difference in beef for sure. And so we can't produce enough of our own that we supply [Hobo Joe's] 100%, but we produce enough of it. And then we also reach out to other producers in the area that we know have good quality beef and supplement there as well. And then anything that we can't supplement through those avenues, we do go with a food vendor.

Lynsey McAnally (28:41):
So tell me a little bit, or rather tell our audience a little bit, about the snack sticks.

Chance Combs (28:47):
So they are phenomenal. I hate to toot our own horn, but I think they're great. It's a ready-to-eat product, it's a shelf-stable product. You can put them in the fridge. I actually personally like to put them in the fridge. I like eating them cold, but they're definitely a shelf-stable product. We're in several different stores. We have four main lines now. We try different stuff here and there, but these four have really just gone over the top for us, we feel like. So we're sticking with them. Our Original is one that actually has pineapple in it and some cheese in it. It's got a little bit of a spice, but the sweetness kind of takes the spice away at the end. Very good products. And the best part about them is they're 100% beef.

Lynsey McAnally (29:31):
Awesome! How did you go about developing those flavors? I think you've told us a little bit in the past, but I thought it was really intriguing the depth of research you guys went to in order to make that happen.

Chance Combs (29:42):
So it's really neat because you got to surround yourself with people who know what they're doing. Anybody that's ever met me knows that Chance didn't come up with these things because he can barely get up and get dressed in the morning. So we've got a couple of food scientists that we really rely on that we've made good relationships with. One of them in particular is out of Kansas City. Any time we have a question about something, we might have an idea about something, but we're not sure how to completely execute it. And so we'll get on the phone with him and he'll walk us through different things. And it might take 10 runs, it might take 15 runs. You just keep trying it until you figure out that it's good. And then on top of that, you've got to really listen to him on the side of, 'How do we make this shelf stable now?' Because there's lots of different regulations in how things are cooked. What temperature they come to, how they're cooled down, what ingredients goes in, their pH, what's their water activity? At the end of the day, all that has to be tested and proven so that you can have a shelf-stable, ready-to-eat product. It's a really neat process. I don't understand all of it. I rely on people that do. That's how we got there.

Lynsey McAnally (30:58):
Yeah, there's a lot of things in life that I don't know enough about, but I sure have people in my corner that are experts in those fields, and I'm more than happy to rely on them to answer those questions. You had an idea of how large the plant needed to be when you first built it, but where are you at currently on capacity and do you see the need to expand the facility in the future to keep up with that growth?

Chance Combs (31:24):
Yeah, so this past six months of growth had been more than what we were expecting. Our capacity right now, I would say we're about 80% of what we can handle. So we are starting to plan on things to expand our facility. There's a couple different things that we have to do or need to do. One thing is we need to expand the RTE side, the ready to eat side, because really you got to really keep separation between your raw products, your cooked products, your ready to eat products. And so that's a big deal because both of these things are kind of coming to a head at the same time. So we really need to do two expansions on the plant, and we're trying to figure out, okay, we can't do 'em both at the same time. We got to figure out which one we need to do first. I think that it's probably going to be the raw side, the producer side, to where we can accommodate our producers because I'd rather see their products out there doing well, because at the end of the day, that's what feeds our plant right there. So we want to get that one done first, I think. And then after that, hopefully the RTE, and I'm talking hopefully next spring or next summer is when we're going to really start looking at expanding that plant.

Lynsey McAnally (32:43):
And that rolls really well into one of my next questions, which is what do you think the biggest opportunity for cattle producers is when it comes to working with a local processor like yourself? That's a pretty big question.

Chance Combs (32:54):
Well, there's several things. I'm not sure what the greatest of those are. I think that working with a small producer, you're getting that more of an intimate friendship kind of deal. Like if something goes wrong, we're there to fix it right then. We're there for one-on-one discussion about anything. We have people come to us all the time that are looking for other lines of value added product because, like you said earlier, there's only so many steaks on a beef. And so moving steaks is easy. Everybody likes steak. And then moving most of your ground is sometimes easy, but then sometimes you're left with some ground that you go, 'You know what? I could have made some value added products. I could have had them do brats. I could have had them do some snack sticks or hot dogs, which is all products we make. Or patties. We do a hatch green chili patty that is phenomenal. And those value added products are things thatcreally drive the market right now because once those steaks are gone, people still want to eat beef. And if you don't offer them a product and all you have over there is say some beef liver or some beef tongue - which don't get me wrong, I love those cuts - but not everybody eats that stuff.

Lynsey McAnally (34:10):
It's not everybody's cup of tea.

Chance Combs (34:11):
Exactly, exactly. So you got to really look at those value added products, and I think that's probably the best thing that these smaller producers would want to come to a smaller plant for is to really personalize their cut sheet.

Lynsey McAnally (34:28):
I guess the flip side of that is, what do you think is the biggest challenge that small packers or small processors like yourself are currently facing?

Chance Combs (34:36):
I would say that cattle prices is the toughest part of what we're going through right now. Don't get me wrong, everybody is doing great at the sale right now. And that is a good thing because it's been long overdue for many people! But what that does is that when a man or woman is deciding what they're going to do, 'Hey, are we going to wean these? Are we going to take them to the sale? Are we going to hold them back, feed them and take them to Whiskey Creek?' These prices make the decision a little tougher when you can take it down to the sale and make some pretty good money off of it right now and not have to put any more input into it. So I think that's probably the toughest part. What I am seeing right now is people were doing that, but now people are trying to get back into, 'We need to sell some of this meat. We need to put some efforts into it and get back into the market.' And so that's a promising thing that we've seen over the last four to six months

Lynsey McAnally (35:31):
And the ranch to table, farm to table movement. It's been really exciting to see over the last few years. And I think that we put so much effort and such an investment into our cattle, it's only logical that our smaller producers are looking to get the most bang for their buck on that investment. It was pretty cool. Like I said, I just want to thank you guys again for inviting our group in to see Whiskey Creek and see what you all are doing. I think it's a really cool case study for adding that value to your product. Finding outlets for a product that obviously there's great demand for, but we always love to make more demand for and present beef in a form that is accessible to everybody. And that again, goes really well with where I want to go next. Where do you hope to see the business in the next five to 10 years?

Chance Combs (36:29):
Oh gosh, that's a good one. We're always people that love to not sit still and try to grow things. So I would love to see that plant double its size in the next five years. Now, whether that's in God's plans or not, I don't know. But we're going to push for it for sure.

Lynsey McAnally (36:47):
So, Chance, this has been quite the conversation. I think this is probably going to be one of our longer episodes, but one I think that will have kept people hooked up the entire time. Again, we talked earlier about getting behind the curtain, enlightening people about what the process looks like in a smaller processing plant and what opportunities are out there as far as value added product. The inputs that you guys put in emotionally and financially into Whiskey Creek I think are important to think about as well. But one of the things that we always like to wrap up with at the end of the podcast, in addition to saying thank you for putting up with us for the episode and answering all of our questions, is we like to end Angus at Work on a positive note. So what is one thing happening in your life personally or professionally that you are thankful for? And I understand that's a huge question ...

Chance Combs (37:45):
Yeah, that's a really huge question because I mean, really we live in the greatest nation in the world and we have the freedom to do business and go to church. There's so many things to be thankful for. But I think that for me, at this stage in my life, two of my kids are out of the house. My last one's a senior. I just thank God for health and the ability to enjoy them. I had a pastor when I lived in North Carolina, I was just starting to have kids. And this pastor, his kids were just getting out of his house. He told me one day, he said, 'Chance, it's not your job to be these kids' friend.' He said, you need to be their daddy and Courtnie needs to be their mama. And if you do that correctly, when they get older, you get to be their friends. And so I'm starting to see that transition in my life and what a blessing it is. So I just want to thank God for my family and friends and coworkers because without all that, without the blessing of God, I don't think any of this would be worth it.

Lynsey McAnally (38:55):
Gosh, this is going to be a good one. I am so excited for our audience to hear it. And, Chance, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us today.

Chance Combs (39:05):
Absolutely, Lynsey. I appreciate the opportunity and thanks for guiding me through all this.

Lynsey McAnally (39:16):
Listeners, for more information on making Angus work for you, check out the Angus Beef Bulletin and the Angus Beef Bulletin EXTRA. You can subscribe to both publications in the show notes. If you have questions or comments, let us know at abbeditorial@angus.org and we would appreciate it if you would leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and share this episode with any other profit-minded cattlemen. Thanks for listening. This has been Angus at Work!