Balancing the Consumer and the Cow with Mark Johnson and Jesse Luckie

Farmers and ranchers gathered together at Cattlemen’s Congress in Oklahoma City recently to attend Commercial Cattlemen’s Day. As part of the event, Angus University hosted a panel focused on balancing the consumer and the cow. 
 
Today’s host, Radio Oklahoma Network's Ron Hayes, sat down with panelists Jesse Luckie and Mark Johnson to discuss balancing consumer demand with a cow who can produce a quality product despite the environment she performs in. 

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General: 
Angus at Work, a podcast for the profit-minded cattleman, brought to you by the Angus Beef Bulletin. We have news and information on health, nutrition, marketing, genetics, and management. So, let's get to work, shall we?

Lynsey McAnally: 
Hello and welcome back to Angus at Work. Farmers and ranchers gathered together at Cattleman's Congress in Oklahoma City recently to attend Commercial Cattleman's Day. As part of a jam packed day of events, Angus University hosted a panel focused on balancing the consumer and the cow. Today's host, Ron Hayes, with the Radio Oklahoma Network, sat down with panelists, Jesse Luckie and Mark Johnson, to discuss balancing consumer demand with a cow who can produce a quality product despite the environment she performs in. So, let's dive in.

Ron Hayes:
A couple of folks are with us today, including Dr. Mark Johnson from Oklahoma State University's Animal Science Department, and from the division of Agriculture natural Resources, and then, also, we've got rancher, Jesse Luckie from the Snake Creek Ranch. There's a property basically from Ashland, Kansas down to the Buffalo, Oklahoma area, several thousand acres with a lot of mama cows. And, Jesse, let's start with you maybe, first of all. When you think about this concept of trying to balance traits that would basically reflect the success of a mama cow, but at the same time delivering a great eating experience for today's consumer, what do you have in mind?

Jesse Luckie:
Number one, I think we need to keep the consumer in the mind. That's our end product, that's our report card for what we do, day in and day out. Having said that, to meet the consumer's demands, we have to have a live calf, and so, we need to concentrate on these traits that are highly heritable, but also create a cow that's suitable to the environment that we operate within. And so, really and truly, we need to look at everything from a holistic point of view. I think a combination of genetic selection, good management, and understanding trends really serves as the catalyst to meeting the consumer's demands.

Ron Hayes:
Jesse, why don't you tell us a little bit about your ranch operation there, right at the corner of Oklahoma and Kansas?

Jesse Luckie:
So, we operate on both sides of the state, actually. Our address is actually Kansas, but we do operate in Harper County, Oklahoma and Clark County, Kansas, and actually Comanche County, Kansas as well. Historically, we were a cow calf operation. About 13 years ago, I moved back from... I actually lived down here in Oklahoma City. I moved back home and we started trying to create a sustainable family model that we could expand into future generations, but also, what does the business need and how do we become more profitable and create more margin?
About three years ago, we built a 6,500 head feed yard, which we mostly background calves, and then, we also do a lot of heifer development out of that facility as well. And, that's added a lot of diversity to our operation. Additionally, we started retaining ownership around 2012, I believe, of 100% of our home raised animals. And, by doing that, we started really honing in and started improving our genetic makeup of our cows in order to achieve that outcome we're looking for in dollars.

Ron Hayes:
You're really focusing a lot of ways on that end product, then?

Jesse Luckie:
Yeah, absolutely. That end product is probably the number one priority for us. Having a bred cow is, I think, paramount in getting the consumer what they need, but that end product is where we're fine-tuning things in our operation.

Ron Hayes:
One of the other panelists at the Angus University event was Dr. Mark Johnson, Oklahoma State University beef cattle specialist. And Mark, you were able to also address this concept trying to balance that maternal versus terminal, the cow and taking care of the needs of the consumer.

Mark Johnson:
I would echo Jesse's comments, and I don't know that I got a lot to add on this particular thing because he did a nice job of summarizing that. One of the things that we get into as purebred seed stock producers is that there are incremental consumers along the way. And to define what I mean by that term is we may sell this bull to a commercial cow calf operation who sells their calves at weaning. And so, that is our consumer, and it is whoever is buying those weaned calves that is their consumer. It may be someone that sells their calves as yearlings off wheat, and that changes that consumer along the way dynamic. And we also get into halter prospect programs where we have junior 4H and FFA exhibitors.
And so, ultimately, as we discussed this morning, we can never lose sight that we produce beef. This industry that we're a part of, we've got a ruminant animal. The cow can take our grass and forage and turn it into beef, but it's such a big, segmented, complicated industry that along the way there's different consumer demands that we have to meet and never... As we say, we would never want to lose sight, Ron, of the consumer of beef. We can never lose sight of the importance of that efficient cow that raises a calf to weaning every year for us.

Ron Hayes:
One of the things that a lot of discussion has gone around at this Congress, but also really for years, the debate over how big of a cow is the right size cow for a most efficient operation. Jesse, what do you think on that? What's the right size cow for a ranch like yours?

Jesse Luckie:
Every operation's different, and Texas is not Kansas, Nebraska is not Montana. I don't think there's a right answer there. I think you have to judge that and judge your own operations uniquely. Even though we're all in the same business, our operations are uniquely different enough to change the whole dynamic. I don't think you can paint everything with one brush. And so is there a cow size that's too big? Absolutely. Have we seen that? Probably in some instances, yes, but I don't think that's the single most deciding factor of how we choose our genetic pool. I think there's so many variables that go into how we decide what that optimum cow size is or that heifer or that cow that we keep back. Have I culled for cows that are too big? Absolutely. Is that a thing that I do every year and on every cow? No, that's not, but to paint everything with the same brush I think is really inappropriate to say.

Ron Hayes:
Do you-

Jesse Luckie:
And I think that is a great answer and that's why I threw the ball back to him on that, because, at OSU, when we have a bull sale, it is interesting. People that are going to use bulls as maternal sires, keep daughters back for their cow herds, the western side of Oklahoma gets less rainfall and there's a little less forage. The eastern side of Oklahoma gets more rainfall and there's more forage. And just that answer is how big should the cow be to fit their production environment changes even within the state of Oklahoma based on forage availability. But it is only one part of the equation.

Ron Hayes:
Right. You brought up during our conversation in the arena the fact that we're dealing with the desire of bigger and bigger carcasses and what kind of a cow does it take to produce that larger carcass, at the end of the day?

Mark Johnson:
I think our existing cow herd in this country has proven to be perfectly capable of producing those pens of feedlot cattle that can finish at 16, 1700 pounds.

Ron Hayes:
So for a producer, either one of you gentlemen, how do we balance and keep our eye on the end goal of satisfying that consumer? Consumer seems like they're more and more... They're willing to pay for quality, but they've proven that even in the midst of these incredible beef prices and relatively short supplies compared to just a couple of years ago.

Jesse Luckie:
Yeah. Time and time again, I think quality pays, number one. But even within the Angus industry, there's two segments of thought, and that's the terminal breeders versus the maternal breeders, and I'm a little bit of an outlier here. I don't think those are mutually exclusive. It takes one to have the other. And so, it's that holistic balance that we look at to get that live calf on the ground and then to go on and grow, and growth is a big thing. And then, to perform at the feed yard and hang on the rail in that high choice or prime category. To say we have to choose between one or the other, I don't think those two qualities are mutually exclusive.

Ron Hayes:
Anything else to add on that?

Mark Johnson:
I would agree with that, and I do think this is a testament to the job that the beef industry has done. If we look back over the last 30 years, we take a look at this information that's came in through National Beef Audit and we see that we have got a more consistent product. We've got a higher quality product. A lot of that information that Paul Dykstra shared this morning in his presentation, that increasing percentage of prime and virtually all fed cattle are reaching choice and higher quality grades. And those quality based branded programs, we're seeing higher certification rates. It is a success story that our industry can tell that where genetic change, better management has led to a better product that consumers to this point still are willing to pay a premium for, and it remains the protein source of choice.

Ron Hayes:
It's remarkable that select beef is just almost going away.

Mark Johnson:
That is interesting. It wasn't that long ago in my career, it doesn't seem like that long ago, that we were talking about trying to feed cattle for at least 150 days so that 70% would grade choice, hopefully better. And you look at that versus some of those statistics we're seeing this morning, 10 to 11% now of our weekly slaughter mix going select. Again, it's that success story that we have to tell.

Ron Hayes:
I brought up a quote from a gentleman or a comment from a gentleman that I interviewed years and years and years ago. Ladd Hitch, legend in the feedlot industry in the Oklahoma panhandle and really across America. Ladd referred to himself as a beef producer. And, at that point, it was common for guys to talk about they were cowboys or cattlemen and that they were taking those animals to sell them as animals, and they weren't worried about the end product so much. We've got to pay attention to that, don't we?

Jesse Luckie:
I think it's important that all of us that participate in the beef industry, we need to look at things. I keep going back to holistic viewpoints, holistic viewpoints, and I think, one thing that we can do, whether you participate in all segments or not, I think there's opportunity out there to create strategic partners with either another producer, a feed yard, or anybody else to bring everybody together in basically one big happy family, so to speak, to help understand and help everybody have skin in the game, clear to the end product. That's one thing I don't think we do a very good job of.
We tend to operate our businesses and our operations the way we've always done it, and how do we reach out there and create strategic partnerships in order to be better beef producers? And, when we wake up every day, it's, "What's one thing we can do differently to improve the end product for the consumer?" And I don't think a lot of people think in those terms. I think they think in terms of, "What week am I going to sell my calves at the sale barn in order to get the best possible price?" And they don't take in consideration what that calf is going to do from that point on, and I think we lose efficiencies along the way there.

Ron Hayes:
End of the day, we wrapped up our conversation there in the arena. We just basically said, "What do we need to do to be successful in the business and meet and check both boxes?" What does that look like?

Mark Johnson:
Well, big picture, and I concur with something I've heard Jesse say a couple times today. You have to think holistically about your production system and everything from that cow that is efficient in your production environment through the ultimate consumer of beef, the product. And we have so many genetic tools available to us in 2024, and we have so many technologies that we've discovered that we can use in management, and we just learn more about best practices, things like beef quality assurance, that all lead to the ability, for us, if we go through our checklist and we think holistically that we are capable of... We can produce a product in a sustainable fashion that is the protein of choice to consumers and meets consumer demand. And so, a lot of layers to the onion, as I always say, but I think there's an ability that we can do that in an industry that has got such a long production cycle, has historically been so segmented, that we can each do our part because we're all part of the same business.

Ron Hayes:
Jesse?

Jesse Luckie:
Yeah, I would concur with all that. We all need to do our part and try to make it better for the next person down the line. But the one thing that we do as producers and cattlemen is, I think we do a lot of things based on emotion, and we need to bring data and trendline decision making back into our operations. When we have a period of time where we don't get our cows bred, we want to look for a genetic solution. And 99.9% of the time, there's more than one variable there that led to that outcome. And so, take the emotion, find ways to take the emotion out of your decision making process and make it more data driven.

Ron Hayes:
Give me something that's good going on in your operation, personally, professionally, but what's good is we start the new year.

Jesse Luckie:
We're enjoying historically good cattle prices right now, and even though we've seen a $25, $30 downturn in the market here in the last couple of months, I think there's a lot of optimism out there for the cattle market in 2024. For me, personally, as we diversify into the different segments of the cattle industry, I see a lot of things coming together that is going to help us not only improve our operation, but maybe create some of those partnerships like I talked about before, to help improve other people's operations, too. Those are my goals, and I hope we get there, and I think that's really exciting. Those possibilities are... There's a lot of opportunity and possibilities in the cattle industry right now.

Ron Hayes:
Mark, what about you?

Mark Johnson:
Again, Jesse does a nice job of explaining these things, and I share those thoughts, but even as we think of opportunities and we look at our national cow inventory, these opportunities are going to exist for a few years here. And I get back to, I'm a 59-year-old man that has been in the cattle business my whole life. I moonlight as a college professor. I am blessed that I have my own place and my family and I raise cattle. But this is a story of sustainability. We have a cow as a ruminant animal that can take a natural resource, which is forage, and turn it into beef. We as humans can't digest the forage that the cow can, but beef is nutrient dense, highly nutritious, and it is a success story, and I love being part of this industry because of that, and I do think for those that are willing, there are tremendous opportunities for years and I believe decades to come because of the way this business works and can work.

General:
Listeners, for more information on making Angus work for you, check out the Angus Beef Bulletin and the Angus Beef Bulletin Extra. You can subscribe to both publications in the show notes. If you have questions or comments, let us know at abbeditorial@angus.org, and we would appreciate it if you would leave us a review on Apple Podcast and share this episode with any other profit-minded cattleman.
Thanks for listening. This has been Angus At Work.