Keeping Climate Solutions Voluntary with Ashley Bruner

If you've ever found yourself saying, “Stop blaming cows,” then this episode is for you! 

With all the climate discussion in the news and legislation, Kasey wanted to learn more about something touted as a way for farmers and ranchers to be an active part of the solution. So, she sat down with Ashley Bruner with Agoro Carbon Alliance to ask some questions about the carbon market. 

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Transcript

Hello and welcome back to Angus at Work. I'm your host, Kasey Brown. Have you found yourself in recent years saying, "Stop blaming cows"? Well, I know I have, and I've even seen a shirt with that, that I really love. With all of the climate discussion in the news and legislation, I wanted to learn more about something that's touted as a way for farmers and ranchers to be an active part of the solution. So I sat down with Ashley Bruner with Agoro Carbon Alliance to ask her some questions about the carbon market.

Now, before we dive in, I just want to thank you for listening this year. When we launched in March, we really had no idea how it would be received. Well, you showed up and tuned in twice per month for nine months so far, and I really, really appreciate that. Our regular schedule would have us drop our next episode December 28th, but we're going to take a quick publishing break for Christmas. So our new episode will be January 11th, but this episode is about carbon markets. So let's dig in.

Hello, welcome. Thanks for joining me today.

Ashley Bruner:

Thanks for having me. I'm excited to talk to you.

Kasey Brown:

All right. Well, first of all, tell us a little bit about your background in ag.

Ashley Bruner:

Sure. I grew up on a small farm in central Illinois, crops and livestock, both, and was really passionate about ag. Also, really into horses my entire childhood. I actually went to the University of Wyoming. I was obsessed with the mountains, so I went west for college there. And then I married someone from Wyoming who was from an ag background as well, and stayed in Wyoming, now live in Colorado. And I have worked on some ranches in both of those states as well. But my professional career, I've worked for the State Department of Ag in Wyoming, the USDA Forest Service, and then in remote automation prior to joining Agoro Carbon Alliance.

Kasey Brown:

Oh, cool. So tell us what Agoro Carbon Alliance does and how that fits into some of the bigger picture right now.

Ashley Bruner:

Sure, absolutely. We are in the ag carbon market, and what that means is we're paying farmers and ranchers to switch to some more sustainable practices. When it comes to cattle, it's often things like adding biodiversity to their forage base and managing nitrogen, optimizing the use of that in order to improve the forage base for their cattle. And then rotational grazing. When it comes to farmers, it's things like reduced tillage. It is adding cover crops or a diverse mix of cover crops if you already are doing one species and then nitrogen optimization again.

Kasey Brown:

Cool. And so let's talk about the big picture. Let's talk a little bit of what are carbon markets. Why are we starting to hear about them more often?

Ashley Bruner:

Yeah, that's a question we get often. One of the things that people get confused about is there's many different types of carbon markets. The space we work in is particularly the ag carbon market, and it is a relatively new thing that a lot of people are hearing about. And the US ag carbon market is purely voluntary, which means there's nothing regulatory associated with this. Farmers and ranchers want to sign up, it's whatever practices they choose, and it's at their own choice with no regulation attached to it. Some of the other countries around the world do have regulated carbon markets, depends on where you operate. We're a global company, but my focus is in the United States working with producers here.

So what happens is we basically get on the ground with farmers and ranchers, pay them to change practices, and then a company like Agoro Carbon will aggregate all of these practice changes across the United States and then create carbon projects, which are then verified by a third party and then sold on to companies that want to reduce their carbon emissions. One of the easiest ways to do that is through the soil. And so farmers and ranchers can really become leaders in sustainability instead of being... Sometimes they feel like they're the ones blamed for environmental problems. This is an opportunity as an ag industry in general to be at the front of this movement. And then a lot of companies want to either go to net zero or reduce their emissions, and this is called the offset market, which means we're offsetting the emissions that they're taking.

One of the questions that often comes up is, why is this just on farmers and ranchers and why aren't these companies having to change as well, which is totally understandable. And a lot of companies are. They're reducing their own emissions while also purchasing these carbon offsets, which is of course collectively a better path to go all the way around.

Kasey Brown:

So let's talk about that. What if farmers and ranchers are already doing some of these practices? Are they still eligible for this or how does that work?

Ashley Bruner:

Yeah, that's a question that comes up a lot. And we also see farmers and ranchers will self-disqualify without really understanding if they're going to benefit. So our recommendation is to get a custom consultation for your operation to see what practices you're doing currently, what crops you're growing, cattle you're raising, what your pasture land looks like to see if you're eligible. Because let's say you're a farmer that's been doing no-till for years, you can still sign up under the other two practices. And so don't disqualify yourself without actually finding out first.

One other thing we hear commonly is, "Okay, I've tried cereal rye once in the last three years." You can still sign up by adding a diverse mix of cover crops in that scenario, or you can try it on acreages part of your land that you haven't adopted any of these practices. There are some, if you've been doing all the practices for a multiple number of years, you may not be eligible.

Kasey Brown:

Gotcha. How long does this go on if they are selling their offset credits? Is that a permanent thing? How does that work?

Ashley Bruner:

We are looking for permanence, and actually that's one of the things that goes into a high quality carbon credit, which helps farmers and ranchers by getting more money for their carbon credit. And part of that is permanence. So Agoro Carbon has a 10-year contract with farmers and ranchers. That means you're going to be doing these practices for the length of the contract, and that does add that level of permanence. And so they can decide on payment options, either some forward payments or you can decide on later payments. Either way, we pay the floor price of carbon right now, and if it goes up in the future, then we pass that along to farmers and ranchers.

So if farmers and ranchers are thinking about a carbon program, I really recommend you look at that length of the contract support you're going to have after you sign up for a carbon contract. Are you going to be supported or are you just going to be left and you have no idea what's going on? Is the company that you're working with going to use third party verifiers so you can have proof that these are quality carbon credits so that they can get the most out of their work with the carbon market?

Kasey Brown:

So is the carbon market... Does it kind of work like the stock market almost? It sounds like it can go up and down, it can fluctuate in value. How is that set?

Ashley Bruner:

Yeah, it's not currently associated with the stock market, but the analogy is correct. The market will go up and down based on demand. And I can't predict the future of the carbon market, but everything that we read is that it's going to go up and that right now the demand is far out exceeding the supply, which puts farmers and ranchers in a great position because they can capitalize on that.

Kasey Brown:

Awesome. Let's stay a farmer wants to learn more. Where do they start?

Ashley Bruner:

Sure. A great place to start with us is at our website, agorocarbonalliance.com, and you can find out some basics about the program there. We can connect you with an agronomist in your area. We have them throughout the United States. And it's really important to get a specific evaluation of your property because there's a saying, "If you've been to one farm, you've been to one farm," because they can be so variable even within your own acreages what the land is like and what you're available to do. So I would really recommend that you talk with an agronomist and assess if it's going to be the right fit for you.

Kasey Brown:

Gotcha. This sounds maybe a little bit like the CRP program or offsetting land for that specific use. Is that tied in at all or is that something very similar?

Ashley Bruner:

We're not tied to any government programs at all. There are some that you can do in conjunction with a carbon program. There are some you cannot.

Kasey Brown:

Gotcha.

Ashley Bruner:

And that's where this custom evaluation comes in. It's so important to see. It's not like CRP where you're setting aside land and you can't use it for X number of uses. It's as long as you're following the criteria within practice changes. One example that might apply is a rancher can have land that they're farming and then grazing their cattle on in the wintertime. So you might grow cover crops over your fallow fields and then you can graze your cattle on there. That's allowed. And that actually adds value to the whole thing.

Kasey Brown:

Gotcha. I'm hearing so many benefits to this. What are some hesitations that you hear from farmers or ranchers who have talked with you?

Ashley Bruner:

Sure. Some of the hesitations are: "Are you going to be here in 10 years? Are you going to be here in five years? Am I signing up with the company that's here for the long haul." And Agoro Carbon, we're backed by Yara International, which is the world's largest fertilizer company, but we operate independently from them. They have made sustainability commitments globally in agriculture, and we feel very confident that we are going to be here for the long haul. If they're evaluating a program, they should make sure that whoever they're signing up with is there for the right reasons.

Another thing we hear from farmers and ranchers is a question about, "If I let you in now, what are you going to sell me next?" And that's a really important question to find out what else is going to be required of me by signing up for a carbon program. Our company doesn't sell any other product services or technology, and we're completely input agnostic. We're never going to tell a farmer what to put on their fields. That is up to them and I think that's really important.

And the other thing I think that often comes up, "Are my yields going to suffer and what's my return and my bottom line going to be?" And that is something that... There is data and university-backed studies that can show some of these changes, the positives and the negatives. And those are absolutely correct and fair questions to ask of any carbon program that you're assessing.

Kasey Brown:

And you're right, every operation is different and it's good to ask those questions up front.

Ashley Bruner:

Absolutely.

Kasey Brown:

That's very cool. But I do love the permanence of it because it's something for the long haul, it's trying to be a win-win situation, right?

Ashley Bruner:

Yes. And honestly, a win-win situation for farmers is the same for us as a company and the same for the environment. It's all achieving the same goals of sustainability, and it really gives farmers the opportunity to be a leader in this space while still benefiting their own operation. It's not just about the carbon revenue, it's soil health, it's water infiltration, whether you're in Colorado like me, where you need every drop of water you can get, or whether you're in parts of the country that have too much water at different times of the year. These practices really help the soil to become healthier and keep your vital top soil in as well.

Kasey Brown:

Gotcha. And you said it is still in private industry right now, right?

Ashley Bruner:

Yes.

Kasey Brown:

Do you see any regulatory rumblings, or is this still very voluntary and is taken on the initiative of farmers and ranchers now?

Ashley Bruner:

In the US, it seems to be completely voluntary. I don't see any regulatory things right now that I'm aware of. However, in other parts of the world, there are some regulatory markets there, but it's not a requirement to participate to any level that I'm aware of either. So at the moment, it's completely voluntary and I don't see that changing in the foreseeable future here in the US.

Kasey Brown:

Cool. So it's just getting on board at the early stages before anything changes down the road.

Ashley Bruner:

Yes. And I've actually heard producers here in the US mention that, that we have the opportunity to shape this ourselves by volunteering in the way we choose before it becomes that way. Of course, I can't predict the future, but that's some of the things we hear. Is that they like the fact that this is something that they would choose to do on their own versus being told to.

Kasey Brown:

Right. And I think ranchers are an independent bunch and they like having that freedom of choice.

Ashley Bruner:

Absolutely. And as they should. Correct.

Kasey Brown:

Correct. Absolutely. And I think that is a great way to wrap up this conversation, but if ranchers want to learn more, tell us again where we can learn more about your company.

Ashley Bruner:

Yeah, absolutely. Agorocarbonalliance.com. You can just connect with one of our local people across the United States, and we would love to speak with farmers and ranchers and let them know if it's going to benefit them or not.

Kasey Brown:

Cool. Before we end, I'd like to end on some good news, because we know the cattle business is really the people business. Would you mind sharing something with us that's good, personally, professionally, or both?

Ashley Bruner:

Yeah, absolutely. One of the things that I'm really excited about is Agoro Carbon just launched last June 2021, and one of the questions that you asked earlier is some of the skepticisms. And one of the biggest ones is, am I going to actually be paid for this? As of June of this year, we've already paid out over $9 million to American farmers and ranchers for these forward practice changes. It's real. We're here to stay. And that is a very exciting opportunity to work and something that benefits us, the environment, farmers and ranchers together.

Kasey Brown:

Cool. And so that money, where is it coming from?

Ashley Bruner:

Right now, as I mentioned earlier, we're backed by Yara International, and so the money is coming to fund our business through them. But again, we operate independently until we sell the carbon credits.

Kasey Brown:

Gotcha.

Ashley Bruner:

So that's where we're kind of sharing the risk with the farmer and the ranchers across the US. We're doing the scientific analysis through our science team to make sure that these practices are sound and they're going to sequester the carbon. And the farmer and ranchers parts, is to do the practices and follow through and stick with it, that it will then lead to these practice changes that will lead to carbon credits that we sell on to other companies.

Kasey Brown:

Gotcha. Awesome. Well, awesome. I so appreciate your time and your explanation of a very new and sometimes confusing topic. So I appreciate your time. Listeners, you can learn more in our Angus Beef Bulletin and our Angus Beef Bulletin EXTRA. You'll find subscription information for both of those publications in our show notes. As always, if you have questions or comments, we'd love to hear from you. So email us at abbeditorial@angus.org. You've been listening to Angus at Work.