Build Trust with Connections with Courtenay DeHoff and Kiah Twisselman Burchett

Any savvy cattleman or woman knows their ultimate customer is the consumer. If we don’t provide a high-quality eating experience, we are not guaranteed a customer. But you know what else goes into that consumers’ mind when they are deciding what to eat? Trust.

How do we ensure a receptive audience for telling our story? We’re talking about creating connections and building trust with Kiah Twisselman Burchett  of Climbing with Coach Kiah and Courtenay DeHoff of Fancy Lady Cowgirl, and together they are the Backroad Cowgirls. 

They discuss:

• Tips for reaching people with varying backgrounds
• Using your background to make connections
• How the best ideas can start over pasta and wine
• Opportunities for sharing agriculture's message with mainstream media
• Much more!

Resources:
Backroad Cowgirls
Instagram: @backroadcowgirls

Kiah Twisselman Burchett
Instagram: @coach_kiah
Climbing with Coach Kiah podcast

Courtenay DeHoff
Instagram: @courtdehoff

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Transcript

Hello, welcome to the Angus At Work podcast. I'm your host, Kasey Brown. Any savvy, cattleman or woman knows that the ultimate customer is the consumer. If we don't provide a high quality eating experience, we're not guaranteed a customer. But you know what else goes into that consumer's mind when they're deciding what to eat? Trust. Now, if you've been part of the beef industry for longer than a minute, you have likely heard that we need to tell our story. And yes, that's true, we do, but let's dig deeper into that for the very foundation.

How do we ensure a receptive audience for that story? Today we're going to talk about creating connections and building trust with some experts in the field. I am super excited today because I have been a fan of these ladies for years. Today I am joined by Kiah Twisselman Burchett of Climbing with Coach Kiah and Courtenay DeHoff of Fancy Lady Cowgirl, and together they are the Backroad Cowgirls. They also do so many things, reaching so many people, but I will let them explain that. Let's dig in. Hello ladies. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Courtenay DeHoff:

Thanks for having us.

Kiah Twisselman Burchett:

Yeah, thanks for having us, Kasey. We're so excited to be here.

Kasey Brown:

All right. Well, would you mind giving our listeners just a brief background about your ag experience and how that has gone forward in your journeys?

Kiah Twisselman Burchett:

Sure. My name is Kiah, as you mentioned, and I like to say that I am a California cattle rancher, accidentally turned life coach, motivational speaker, and now a podcaster. I grew up on my family's, I was sixth generation. My nieces are now the seventh generation on our cattle ranch in rural California on the central coast in San Luis Obispo County. For any of you that are familiar with the region, I grew up in the beef industry and I grew up in one of those parts of the country where I was an hour from the nearest gas station grocery store. I had to drive an hour one way to go to high school and didn't know any different, and I don't think I really came to appreciate that lifestyle and just how rare that is until I went away to college at UC Davis, I started my career in the agriculture communications field.

I worked for a few years for the beef checkoff at the Kentucky Beef Council as the director of Consumer Affairs, which was a fascinating experience to learn what the beef industry was like on the other side of the country. I realized that the biggest culture shock to me was not living in Kentucky or the accents, but the biggest culture shock to me was realizing just how vastly our beef industry is in the west versus places where they get lots of rain like Kentucky. And so it was just such a really cool learning experience for me and really getting in the mode of making it my career to really tell the story of agriculture in that way. I love being this bridge between producers and consumers, and I've always been someone who has had a lot of friends in the ag industry, but my passion is people in general, and I love being that person that go to ag person for those people that grew up in the cities that have no other personal connection to the industry.

And I learned so many incredible skills in that role in that job. And by accident, by sharing my own personal health journey on social media, I was afforded the incredible opportunity to shift gears a little bit and become a life coach and a motivational speaker. And so even though my day-to-day life now doesn't look as much like ranching and really caring for the livestock on a day-to-day basis, it's been such a cool and rewarding opportunity to really use my skills in our industry, which is really talking and communicating and sharing stories now, and really being that continued voice to connect our producers with our consumers in a fun and unique way to me, and we'll jump into this more, but now I have big aspirations for taking that storytelling ability hopefully to the mainstream, the big screen one day by creating a TV series with my dear friend Courtenay here, that people can really connect with agriculture stories for those that have never ever grown up in the industry.

Kasey Brown:

That's awesome. Courtenay, tell us a little bit about you.

Courtenay DeHoff:

Yeah, I like to say that I am a cowgirl turned television host, so much like Kiah, I grew up in the beef industry, the Angus industry specifically my mom and dad had a small operation ransom cow calf pairs, but I grew up showing Angus heifers all over the country. My childhood was very much the National Junior Angus Association. That association instilled my love for speaking and communicating, and I didn't realize it then, but the Angus Association was setting me up for my television career, which I fell into in college. I went to Oklahoma State to be on the rodeo team there. Turned out I did have to get an education that was not rodeo, so I majored in agricultural communications and interned at a TV station and just fell in love with telling people's stories and telling stories that evoke emotion because really great storytelling makes you feel something, and that's something that I always really loved.

Landed my first TV gig right out of college lasted a year. I quit, had to move home to Kansas. That was embarrassing. Eventually did land my next big TV job, but I pushed the cowgirl away because the industry was telling me, look, if you want to be taken seriously in the world of television, you got to take the cowboy hat off your head. People are going to think you're uneducated. They're going to think you came from some small weird town, like Tonganoxie, Kansas. And so I listened for a decade. I pushed that whole side of my life aside, the Angus, the horses, the cowgirl because I thought that's what I needed to do to be successful in television. I moved to the largest cities in America, everywhere from Nashville to Dallas to New York. I was living in these big urban areas. And eventually with age comes maturity and you start to realize that what makes you different is actually what makes you special and what makes you unique.

And like Kiah, I was able to lean into my experience living in these big cities and start to see how big and vast the disconnect is between the consumer and the producer because I got to live both lives. I was this double agent who had lived both lives. And so through Fancy Lady Cowgirl, which is just this brand that's all about empowering women from all walks of life to just be themselves at all costs through the cowgirl spirit, through my brand Fancy Lady cowgirl, and through now Backroad cowgirls, all of the things I dreamt about my whole life are coming to a fruition. We're telling great agriculture stories, we're introducing mainstream audiences to agriculture and the faces of agriculture, and we're welcoming new people in along the way, and I think that we just can't get enough of that in the beef industry. So that's my story.

Kasey Brown:

I love it. So talk to me how Backroad Cowgirls, how this idea started and how do you run with that big of an idea to move forward?

Courtenay DeHoff:

Yeah, we're both smirking. You can't see us on this podcast, but we're both laughing. It was born where all great ideas are born over wine and pasta. Kiah, do you want to tell the story?

Kiah Twisselman Burchett:

I'd love to. I think in you talking about how do you take this idea and run with it? I think you have to have a certain level of crazy to be so bold and so audacious. Audacious is my word of the year. Fun fact. But you have to have a little bit of that audacity, that bold and daring spirit to be able to go for something that feels really big and impossible. And thankfully, both Courtenay and I have that and the wine and pasta really brought it out. But what happened was I was actually in Kansas of all places speaking at an event, and I came through Dallas and I had a seven-hour layover. And so I called Courtenay and she picked me up for a little spontaneous lunch date. And we're sitting there having lunch and talking about how we're both entrepreneurs, we're both speakers, we both grew up in ag.

Our day-to-day now doesn't look like agriculture. We love traveling. And we were just like, it'd be so cool. It'd be so cool to have our own TV show one day to be able to tell these stories and really blend our love of storytelling with agriculture and travel. And I look at Courtenay and I'm like, well, why don't we just do it? That's why YouTube exists, right? Anybody can have their own TV show, maybe instead of waiting for some big fancy network to come and discover us, what if we just created our own? And it is so wild to look back and think about from that idea, the conception of that idea over wine and pasta at lunch in Dallas to us getting on the road and making this happen. It was a month and a half. We basically said, you know what? We have this dream.

We have this vision, we have this idea, and we have a feeling that other people might believe in it just as much as we do. And so I threw together this website, we threw together this brand, and I mean so fast. We threw this together. And through the generosity of people that believed in us in this project, we were able to get enough funding to do our first digital series, which was highlighting agriculture through the state of California. So we rented this van that, I'm surprised it only broke down once, but we rented this van and we packed up, Courtenay met me in my hometown here in California, and we sat out on the road for two weeks telling the stories of people in agriculture with nothing but Courtenay's old camera and the cowgirl spirit, and just this desire and passion to tell these stories at what Courtenay said earlier at whatever cost that is.

Kasey Brown:

How did you find the stories? How did you decide this is where we're going?

Courtenay DeHoff:

That was something that we talked about a lot. And we considered both, I think Kansas and California because we're like, why don't we start somewhere where we already know people? And both states are obviously heavily involved in agriculture. California just has such a variety of commodities and crops and beef cattle and dairy cattle, and there's just so much. And Kiah, the Twisselman family is quite well known in the ranching world, and they're very well connected. And so Kiah had all of these great story ideas, and we put out feelers on social media I think as well, and got some ideas that way. But I think it's really important to stress that this project is for agriculture, but it was made possible by agriculture. We started a GoFundMe and we're like, well, if nobody donates to this, we're going to have to fund this thing ourselves.

Not only did we get the funding, we had enough to do all 16 episodes. People were so generous to let us come onto their farms and ranches feed lots. The largest feed lot in California said, you've got free rain, shoot whatever you want to shoot, tell whatever story you want to tell. I mean, people really opened up their doors and let us in. And I think the possibilities are endless. We just picked the stories that made sense geographically as well because we were driving this 2002 Euro van that we found on social media, so we didn't know how far mobi was going to get us, so we tried to stay geographically in certain regions so that it made sense. And yeah, that's how it started. And now we just have DMs full of, Hey, you should come to Indiana. Hey, you should come to Kansas. You should come to Florida. You should come to Tennessee. And we want to come everywhere. We want to come to every state. We already have plans to go international. I say we already have plans in our own minds. We have plans to go international.

Kiah Twisselman Burchett:

We're pretty audacious, remember?

Courtenay DeHoff:

Yeah. So.

Kasey Brown:

I love that. So I've got several questions spiraling from this, but as a communicator myself, how much of that were you comfortable with already? Did you already know the production side going into it, or was that something that, you know what? We can figure this out, we've got great brains in our heads and we're just going to roll with it as we go through?

Courtenay DeHoff:

The production side was something that I had done professionally for 10 years, so I absolutely knew how to tell a story. I absolutely knew how to put a story together. I knew how to shoot and edit because that's something that I've been doing in television for over a decade. However, typically you have a team, you have an audio guy, you have an editor, you have a photo. I was usually just the host, just the person talking. You've got a producer, you have an associate producer. And Kiah became all of those things. We became all of those things for each other, and we just hit the ground running.

I had an old DSLR, I bought some fresh batteries. I was like, hope she makes it for 16 episodes. No guarantees. If it blows up, we'll figure out what rent equipment, we'll do something. But so I shot and edited and Kiah jumped in, Kiah did all the interviews. I stood behind the camera, shot the B roll, shot the interviews, came home, edited them. Kiah then built this beautiful, amazing website, which is something that is not my area of expertise. So Kiah, I think you and I really played off of each other's strengths, and I think that's why this worked.

Kiah Twisselman Burchett:

Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. There are things that Courtenay did that I do not currently have the expertise to do. And had she not had that experience, we would've been in a different place for sure, and the end product would've looked so much different. But I think is really cool as I think we leveraged all of the experience that both of us have gleaned in all of our past jobs. And if you have any younger producers listening to this or young professionals listening to this that are maybe in a job or career they don't love right now, I want you to think about how you're getting paid to learn because there are so many skill sets that Courtenay and I used on this project that we might have got from our young leadership days and Courtenay and the Angus Association. And so I think that this was just really us trusting in our ability to make it happen.

And I also have to give a shout-out to the third Backroad cowgirl that also joined our journey. So one of my dear friends, her name is Shelby Caitlin, and she's a photographer based out of the central coast of California. And it must have been just a couple weeks before we went on the road, she slid into our DMs and said, you know what? Hey girls, I know this is a long shot. You guys probably already have a full team coming with you. You probably already have a photographer, but if not, if you're looking for one, I'd love to be a part of the project and come with you and take pictures. And Courtenay and I are like, well, what do you think she's going to think of the fact we have no money to pay her? And so I messaged her back. I said, we love that idea. We do not have a photographer, wish we had a team. The team is Courtenay and I.

We love to have you on board. We don't have money to compensate you, but if you are as passionate about this project as we are, absolutely we have a spot for you. And so Shelby, Caitlin loaded up in the van with us for the full two weeks and came and one of her dreams is to shoot a coffee table book that's highlighting people in agriculture. And so her heart and soul was just as much in this project as we were. And I will say, had we not had Shelby on that on the road with us, it would've been a very different experience. Our website landing pages are beautiful because of the pictures that she was able to capture. And so really being able to also welcome in the expertise of that third fantasy cowgirl made this project just so much more impactful overall.

Courtenay DeHoff:

And Shelby went above and beyond. She came to take photos and short of fixing our transmission, she did just about everything else. I mean, she just stepped up in anything we needed, whether it was a snack or coffee or whether she needed to sit between Kiah and I. Not that Kiah and I ever had any beef, but Kiah and I have very different personalities. And Shelby was this beautiful, perfect, middle, third ground, just the third person. Yeah, Shelby absolutely made it what it was.

Kasey Brown:

I love that one. I want to point out, did you say that the van was named Moby because it's a large white van?

Kiah Twisselman Burchett:

Yes. So we discovered mobi because, well, okay, Courtenay and I are doing research. We're like, oh, we're going to just rent this van. It's going to be great. We had no idea how expensive renting a camper van was. I think COVID really made it extra trendy. And some of those camper vans are probably nicer than my apartment is. And so we were like, we are going to need to do some more fundraising at this rate. And so I just put this cold call out on Instagram and I had a woman message me who went to Davis College with me years ago. We maybe met sophomore year, and I haven't seen her since. And she's like, well, I do have this van. It's an older van. It runs too. His name is Mobi. He's a big white van.

Used to be my uncle's like this hand-me-down van. She said, if you can get to San Diego and you can drive it back, you can rent it for a full month. And I was like, well, Brent, my husband, I was like, what do you think about taking the train to San Diego to go retrieve this van that I hope runs? And it was, I mean, he Mobi, I'm talking about Mobi as a he. Yes he, he was nothing fancy. And I think that even made the experience all the better. My dad too, I have to give a huge shout-out to my dad. He really helped us up level Mobi. He built this custom metal frame to go off the front of Mobi where we attached a pair of horns with the sirappy wrap in the center.

And so Mobi had horns on the front of him. And I also have to give a shout out to Poor Richards Press. They're a local printing company here in San Louis Obispo, California. They donated all of the branding for our road trip. So they helped us print these custom magnets because we didn't own the van and they helped us brand Mobi. We had a cow on the back that said Giddy up heifers. There was stickers and cowgirls all over this van. I mean, it was a sight. We had lots of heads turning down the freeway, but I feel like Mobi had the perfect character for the excursion for sure.

Kasey Brown:

Sounds fantastic. One thing that you touched on that I really, really love is that you have picked up all these skills through your ag background, through your work experience, through your other interests. Personally, I always grew up as a music kid and now my theater hobby helps with our podcast and just things from other areas of your life can still contribute to a position in agriculture or some part of that, even if when you're growing up you don't think of that as a career or a way to contribute to the industry or things like that. And so I love that that helps create connections and that helps go forward. So you mentioned some great advice to young producers. What kind of advice would you guys give young cattlemen or people growing up in the industry of how to create some of those connections? How to maybe grow an audience or how to reach people on different platforms?

Courtenay DeHoff:

That's a good question, and that could go many, many different directions. I'll share, I guess what I've learned, and then Kiah, you can share what she's learned are probably similar, but also probably a bit different. As far as growing on a platform, I assume you mean like social media, I think for me, the key has been and continues to be authenticity. When I turned my mess into my message, as I like to say in my keynotes, that's when things started to happen. That's when the following started to grow. The real connections started to happen. My social media, Fancy Lady Cowgirl, really talks about my struggle to fit in. The television industry told me to lose the cowboy hat. Don't tell people I'm from Kansas, don't talk about cows. They'll think you're uneducated. No one will take you seriously in mainstream television.

And when I finally busted through that barrier and started sharing agriculture stories on my social media, those stories took off. And this was back in 2017. Several of them had millions of views. They were going viral, agriculture was loving it. But what agriculture didn't realize is that I was living in the largest cities in America. They didn't realize that I didn't wear a cowboy hat and cowboy boots on a daily basis. I was a television host working in places like New York wearing clothes that were not cowgirl. And so agriculture saw this and was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. You don't really belong here either. You're not legit, you're not cowgirl enough. You couldn't possibly advocate on our behalf because you're not one of us. But I grew up in the industry, but what I realized is that there's this sort of gate keeping that goes on in the western agriculture community like, oh, you want to be an Angus producer?

Well, if you weren't born into it, good luck. You'll never make it, and we're not going to help you because you're not one of us. And I don't mean to single out the Angus industry, not that the Angus industry would ever do that because it's the best breed in the world, of course, but there's a lot of gate keeping that goes on. Well, for me, when I really started leaning into that, like what the heck are we doing? I've been told I don't fit in here. I've been told I don't fit in here. I leaned into my mess, what I was struggling with, and I put that out on social media, that authentic story, and that's when my following started to grow. And when people started to take notice, and I tell people all the time when I deliver keynotes and do workshops, every single person has a story.

Every single person has a unique voice that they can use to advocate on behalf of whatever industry. Maybe it's the poultry industry, maybe it's the beef industry, maybe it's farming, maybe it's rodeo, whatever it may be. I think we all have a voice. And now I've gotten off on a tangent about the gate keeping, and I don't even remember what the question was, but I think just really leaning into your authentic self, which sounds fluffy and oh, okay, lean into my authentic self, but truly turn whatever you are struggling with, whatever message you have, turn your mess into your message is the advice that I would give. I don't know if I answered the question, but there you go.

Kasey Brown:

Yeah, I love that. Have the confidence to be yourself, to create those connections. I love that, confidence is my word of the year. Kiah, do you have anything to add to that? How have you reached others through I know both of you have had so many different ways to reach people. What advice would you have Kiah for reaching other audiences?

Kiah Twisselman Burchett:

Yeah, no, I love that advice that Courtenay shares and she talks about authenticity. I do think that's so important. And I think the other thing that Courtenay does really well, and something that has really helped me also grow my following and really connect with my audience in agriculture and outside of agriculture is allowing myself to be seen vulnerably, social media and whatever platform that is, of course, people want to show up and put their best foot forward. You want to show the highlight reel, you want to show the shiny stuff. And I think it's so easy for us to get so distracted and lost in it and thinking that we're behind. We're not doing it good enough. They have so many more followers. Their life is so much better. And social media is, it's just one little snapshot of a very small glimpse of your life.

And I think that where I have found, where I create the deepest, enriching connections, whether it be on social media or whether I am a keynote speaker or talking to someone in a hallway at an event, it always comes back to those true connections are made on the human level. And when I say the human level, I mean that we connect in our joy, we connect in our sorrow, we connect in our excitement, we connect in our pain. And I think that when we allow ourselves to be seen, other people can see themselves in us too. And Courtenay and I always say whether we're filming backward cowgirls, whether we're sharing something online, at the end of the day, people connect with people. And I think that we need to remember that at the end of the day, the person on the other side of that screen is just another human being with dreams and wishes and hardships and struggles just like you have.

And I think that we feel so hesitant to allow ourselves to be seen, to let our mess become our message, when really that's where true connection is really fostered in my opinion. And so I think that that's just really, really powerful. And I think the other thing in being authentic, something that I've realized, I just recently turned 30, and then there could be some people listening to this. There's like, oh my God, that's so young. And maybe some people have been like, oh my God, that's so old. But I feel like the older I get, the more I realize that there's so much about myself I have yet to discover. And so allow yourself to learn and try new things and make mistakes and do it messy and change your mind and try again, and it's okay if you do that and people witness it happening because that is again, just you allowing your humanness to be seen. And I think that people really, really connect with that at the end of the day.

Kasey Brown:

I love that. I've seen studies, I mean, people trust farmers and ranchers. They want to know more about the people who produce food, and we just need to be confident and willing to share that. And I think that is so wonderful. Ladies, I could talk to you for hours, but before we end, we all know the cattle business is really a people business. And so I'd like to end with some good news. And what would you both be willing to share something good that's happened professionally, personally, or both?

Courtenay DeHoff:

Okay, I'll go first. Something, some good news that has happened personally, I grew up in the Angus business, but I am now heavily involved in the bucking bull business by accident via social media. I got a DM in 2020 that was like, "Hey, what's up? Do you want to own a bucking bull?" And I was like, "Hey, no, I don't, but thanks." And so now I am the owner of part owner of a bull named Top Dollar. Top Dollar in January, made his Madison Square Garden debut at the PBR, which was pretty darn exciting. He had his first high bowl of the event in Albany, New York before he went to Madison Square Garden.

So that is my personal Top Dollar is the absolute love of my life. When people ask why I'm not married or dating, I'm like, well, hello. I have Top Dollar. So there is that professionally, Kiah and I have some big things happening with Backroad Cowgirls. We have six or seven more episodes that are just getting ready to launch. So visit backroadcowgirls.com. You can watch the first six episodes. They're amazing, incredible people. Amazing, incredible stories, but we've got some big things brewing. I don't know how much we can announce at this point, Kiah, but there's big things coming.

Kiah Twisselman Burchett:

I'm going to go ahead and spell the beans Courtenay, because I can't hold it in any longer. Okay. We've been holding back so much and it's been killing me. But the exciting thing coming for us both and Backroad Cowgirls is thanks to the generous, generous partnership of Simplot Grower Solutions, we are officially shooting a professionally produced pilot episode in 2023. So what that means is that Courtenay and I don't have to do it alone anymore, which is so exciting. We have a full production team that's come on board, and right now as we're recording this, we are in the phase of vetting our stories and picking which story is going to be the main pilot episode. So right now, if you go to backroadcowgirls.com, you can see our digital series. So those are like minisodes, just a taste of what's to come. But we are so excited for the opportunity to flesh out these stories at an even deeper level, really be able to highlight farmers and ranchers and agriculturalists all across the United States this year with the big audacious dream of once that is done, shopping it out to mainstream networks.

Courtenay and I, at the very beginning, we made a couple of rules for ourself. The number one rule was we have to have fun. This has to be a good time. If it's not a good time, then we're doing it the wrong way. I think we've been nailing that one so far. And the other one is that we don't want to create a show that becomes another echo chamber within agriculture. Agriculture's great, we love the Agriculture supports this project, but at the end of the day, we are creating a show. We are producing this content and sharing these stories with the effort of it to connect with that mom in New York City, that person that works in downtown Los Angeles, people that have no personal connection to agriculture. And so our big dream is that we're going to get Backroad cowgirls on a mainstream network. We're going to have big fans outside of agriculture, and I think we're going to make it happen. I feel it deep in my bones.

Courtenay DeHoff:

It's going to happen.

Kasey Brown:

That is so cool. I cannot wait to watch it. I'm glad you brought that up because I heard you on one of your last podcast episodes saying that you were hoping to start filming a pilot, so that is so cool. I'm so excited for that. I wish you all the best, both of you. But where can our listeners find out more about both of you, about Backroad Cowgirls, all the things, where can they find you?

Courtenay DeHoff:

Yeah, you can watch all of the episodes, follow along with Backroad Cowgirls at backroadcowgirls.com. We now have a bustling Instagram account, which I have been working on. That's at Backroad Cowgirls, but you can also follow each of us personally. That's where we've really built our audiences over the years. I'm just at courtdehoff or courtenaydehoff.com. It is the French spelling because my mother thought that was a good idea. We are not French, but it's E-N-A-Y. Just type in Courtney DeHoff, you'll find me.

Kiah Twisselman Burchett:

And you can find me on Instagram is my favorite platform to hang out on. I am Coach_Kiah, K-I-A-H. I'm also Coach Kiah on Facebook as well. And yeah, and if you're a YouTuber, we are Backroad Cowgirls on YouTube as well. So hit subscribe. We'd love to bring you along. We're so, so proud of the stories that have already been shared there and just are so looking forward to sharing even more in this coming year.

Kasey Brown:

Awesome. Well, I have so enjoyed getting to talk with both of you ladies. Thank you for inspiring me for years and for doing such good work for agriculture. Listeners, if you want to learn more, you can find more in the Angus Beef Bulletin and the Angus Beef Bulletin Extra. You can find ways to subscribe to both of those publications in the show notes. I'll make sure we get all the links to Backroad Cowgirls and both Kiah and Courtenay in the show notes as well. But if you've got any questions, please let us know at abbeditorial@angus.org, and if you would please give us a rating or a review about the podcast. That way we can help get more information out to other profit minded cattlemen. This has been Angus At Work. Thanks for listening.